To be sick of women's attitudes about their oh's competenence with their children?

[rhondajean]

My blood is boiling! Come tell me I am being totally unreasonable.

In the last week I have read countless threads all of which focused on fathers perceived inability to take care of their own children, make decisions a out parenting, basically be an adult.

I can't decide whether half on MN is married/living with idiots or whether there is such a level of arrogance among some women that they cannot accept they are not irreplaceable to their little darlings for a couple of hours, or even days.

C'mon, slap me down!

I don't know, amillion - the accidents that DS have had with him have been really, I think, through him not appreciating that very small children don't have the same capabilities as he does, so probably not in his case.

(going to bed now, so if you ask me any more questions I'll not be answering for a few hours, just didn't want you to think I was being rude. :) )

Actually i'd like to rephrase that answer - I think that he just can't see the potential risks for DS, probably because they wouldn't be there for him, iyswim.

Ah, that is an interesting answer.
Maybe that is why he tries to be best buddies with him as well, as he cant, wont or is unable to relate much to a small child and their needs.
Did he grow up with many siblings?
I always remember, as a child,and when a teenager,thinking that I need to try and remember how this all feels, in case I have children of my own.
Not sure what the answer is. Perhaps he would learn quicker and faster if he was left on his own for a whole week? And told to really watch his own child to see how his child reacts and behaves.
Or he is left on his own several evenings with DS, while you go and read a book in your bedroom?
I am slightly hesitating as I write this. But if say you had to go into hospital, what you let your DH have sole control then?

Good night. May see you in the morning.

My post was to Thumbwitch.

DP is a brilliant father. He is is involved with the children, has been there for virtually every bedtime for the last 6 years. I trust his judgement. But when one parents works full-time, and the other is in sole charge of a baby during working hours, and the parent at home lactates, it does lead to an imbalance of care, not because one parent is rubbish or the other one is interfering, but because the baby/small child comes to feel more secure in the care of one person.

I wouldn't leave our children with their dad when they were babies. At around the age of 2-3 they were happy to be cared for for long periods of time by their father, so that's when he started caring for them for long periods of time. This was a mutual decision, which met the needs of everyone in the family at the time. In a crisis, he was perfectly capable of caring for the babies, but they would cry inconsolably after 45 or so without me, which was far from ideal, and seemed like needless suffering for everyone involved unless it was really neccessary.

In an ideal world I would have liked to have worked part-time, and have DP work part-time, too, and shared the care of our babies equally, but financially, that wasn't an option. As it is, our plan is for him to gradually reduce his work hours as my career takes off once I go back to work, so he will be the more hands-on parent in the teen years.

I am a bit surprised to find the number of women whose husbands never got involved with childcare for the first 2 to 3 years because they were breastfeeding. Ime the cluster feeding where they were permanently attached to the boob only lasted a few months: no reason at all why I shouldn't pop out for several hours away from a big 8mo who was happily scoffing chicken stew and bananas.

And even in the early days, there were hundreds of jobs that could just as well be the responsibility of a father; no reason why dad couldn't become the family authority on bathing or nappy changing or whatever. In fact, with prem ds it took several days before I changed the first nappy and saw those tiny, vulnerable looking limbs: "why didn't you warn me?" I whimpered to dh, but he had been totally unfazed- this was his tiny baby that he needed to get on caring for, so he did. I never noticed either of our children feeling more secure with me when they were little.

I am too cory.
imo, try and get the dads emotionally involved asap, so hopefully they are more willing to be practically involved too.

I agree cory. I was a SAHM ,and so I did most of it, but as soon as he got home he was just as capable of all of it and knew routines etc. Even when bfeeding, before weaning, I was able to go out for a couple of hours.
The saddest posts on here are the men who never get their baby on their own, the mother is always with them-generally the same mothers who secretly love it when their small child wants them and nothing to do with daddy, or the mother who cries if the DC wants daddy rather than them!! In my book it is a partnership and not a competition or a control issue.

Our DS is currently exclusively bf, and I'd agree with cory, I don't think this necessarily means his dad can't look after him. It can push things a bit that way though. I am finding it takes a little effort from both of us to avoid this, & it's still early days.

I noticed a bit of gentle suggestion from midwives/HVs/antenatal classes about jobs for dads in the early days: "bathtime is a good job for Daddy to do because he has bigger hands to hold a newborn comfortably" or "I feed him, then pass him to dad for nappy change". I suspect this is intended as a way to give nervous new dads something they can get good at, so they stay involved in baby care after paternity leave.

"I wouldn't leave our children with their dad when they were babies ....... they would cry inconsolably after 45 or so without me, which was far from ideal, and seemed like needless suffering for everyone involved unless it was really neccessary."

Yep, they will continue to be inconsolable without their mothers whilst others are not allowed to get involved - that's the whole point.

Babies WILL get comfortable with other people (even their dreaded fathers....) when allowed to. Ask any family where the father has been prepared to put the work in and has been allowed to get involved.

A lot of people seem to have misunderstood my post, obviously if one person works and one doesn't one will do the bulk of the Childcare.

But the other one is still a parent and an adult and if you can't trust them to make decisions for your child or to look after your child, there is something wrong there.

Bfing is a bit of a special circumstance - but having bf two babies myself, I refuse to believe that the majority of bf babies cannot have just as good a relationship with their fathers (mine certainly did) or be left for a couple of hours with them without mother helicoptering, certainly after a couple of months anyway.

I think Hecate and Chandon both got my point - thank heavens.

amillion - when I was in hospital for a week having DS2, MIL was pretty much on hand most of the time, DS1 was with her for a lot of it (but then DH was with me a fair bit as well).

DH can manage but things will get forgotten - like teeth cleaning, making him go for a wee before he goes to bed (DS1 had never wet the bed in his life until he stayed overnight with DH at MIL's). I know missing one night of teeth cleaning isn't a biggy but every night for a week would be more bothersome. DH will, when he can, default to letting his mum look after DS1.

Re. leaving DS2 with him (DS2 = 12wo) - I can, have and will leave him for a couple of hours but will now change him before I go as DH won't notice that he needs a clean nappy (has happened about 4 times so far).

He loves them both very much, I have no worry on that score - he just doesn't get what "taking care" of them really involves. But then when I'm ill, I get left all day as well without food, drink or being checked on unless I shout for him (not always possible). Maybe because his mum was a nurse? She did all the caring for all the family all the time, so he was never "allowed" to learn? I don't know. I'd be more worried about him if he refused to do stuff when asked (he doesn't).

TheYami

I too was surprised to read that your baby was inconsolable for 45 minutes in the care of their dad.

My two were formula fed so i can't speak from personal experience of bf, but that does seem extreme.

When i was feeling unecessary guilt at not bf DS 1 the one thing i reassured myself with was the fact that DH could feed him, and partly through that, and partly because I'd had an Emcs, he took a big part in caring for him right from the first days.

Sorry your babies

YANBU - I see this all the time amongst my DH's friends. I think, to be honest, it can be more predominate if the woman doesn't work as she has then becomes the primary carer and so obviously knows the children and their habits etc, perhaps better than the DH? My DH and I both work full-time and completely share childcare responsibilities and he is absolutely as competent, if not more competent, than me. When my DS was born, my DH woke up at night with me when I fed and helped me change him, settle him etc. When my son was just over 12 months old I had to travel overseas for work twice for 2+ weeks each time and I had no doubt at all that my DH was capable of looking after him. Just as i have looked after my son when he has travelled.

However my BIL has just had a baby and he is useless. When my DH asked him yesterday how the baby was sleeping at night he turned to his wife and said "I don't know, [X[, how is [X] sleeping. I don't wake up at all." It was so bloody patronising, which he always is. He said he has to work so he can't afford to miss out on sleep. Utter bullshit. It makes me furious but I am just glad it isn't the case for me and I think it really creates a nice balanced upbringing for my son to have equal parenting.

Thumbwitch, is your DH an engineer type or researcher?
Does he get very focused on some things to the exclusion of others?
Does he any trouble with his hearing at all?

amillion, I don't mind answering your questions but I do wonder where you're going with them!
Yes he is an engineer and his hearing was slightly impaired from working in an engineering shop in his youth.
I don't think he gets focused in the way you suggest though, whenever I go through to the office, he hears me and turns around immediately - I couldn't sneak up on him easily. He does have an element of selective hearing though, usually while he's watching tv.

I am going somewhere with them.
But I can stop now if you want me to.
or pm, or you can have nothing more to do with me!

No, I'm interested, you can carry on. It might help others too! If I get uncomfortable I'll PM you instead. :)

If it is alright with you, I would prefer to pm.
I have been quite controversial on MN recently. I can feel myself going that way again!

No worries - am going to bed now though :)

I wouldn't leave our children with their dad when they were babies ....... they would cry inconsolably after 45 or so without me, which was far from ideal, and seemed like needless suffering for everyone involved unless it was really neccessary."

Yep, they will continue to be inconsolable without their mothers whilst others are not allowed to get involved - that's the whole point.

That is indeed the point. The mother has no need to put her DCs through it if her partner is an equal partner from the start. Some mothers love the fact that no one else can comfort the child because they are the exclusive carer.