To have told SIL "no...NOT Pardon!"?

[MrsMushroom]

We're abroad with DHs family.

DD aged 4 didn't hear something SIL said.....DD said "What?" and SIL said "WHAT? WHAT??? I think you mean PARDON don't you?"

I HAD to say..."No...in England "what" is fine. Or If you prefer..."sorry, I didn't catch that."

Was I rude? I just don't want DD saying "Pardon" or even worse "P'don"

Oh and Merry Christmas everyone!

Any reason why it was my post you quoted there? It doesn't serve your point in any way

stillstarving its not really that people care in any desperately strong way, discussions like this are mainly a mildly interesting diversion from everyday life, as are most topics in chat... You don't have to care too deeply about things to have an opinion and enjoy chatting about them...

Sherbert, a lot of 'pardoners' have been extremely negative about people who dislike pardon. There's been hostility on both sides, as well as a lot of people on both sides who have been perfectly reasonable. I don't think one group have the moral high ground at all.

A lot of the snobbery has sounded tongue in cheek to me, people who do dislike pardon have been exaggerating the snob value for mildly humorous purposes, whereas a greater proportion of the "what is rude" posts sound like either straightforward ipso facto statements or stronger humour free judgements on those who use the term - it is easy to misread the intention of posts on an internet forum of course, but that is how they come across to me...

Prideof - I think you have rather missed my point regarding my mother (who isn't a head teacher by the way). My post was a direct response to Seeker's post of 28th at 13.49. She made the point that, in certain circles, one would be judged for pardon and it could affect your chances in an interview, etc (pretty much the opposite of your argument that those who don't use pardon accept it as a variant. Some do, others most certainly don't. Sadly they don't wear badges to help an interviewee work out which they are).

I made the point in response that, in other circles, 'what' most certainly isn't an acceptable thing to say, and would be considered rude. Neither is 'right'. There is no objective standard - preferring either, and considering the other either rude or common is totally subjective. My mother had it drummed into her as a child that what was rude, and that would be her view of it now. How is that any better or worse than the person who would see pardon as common and think less of the person who used it? For the record, I didn't say she would think the person poorly brought up. I said she would think them rude.

Seeker and I were both making the point that it is a social code, and understanding the code can be very valuable. Because either way of doing things can be wrong for the setting. Many people on this thread have said that they were taught 'what' was rude and were not aware, prior to this thread, that it was preferred in certain circles, so I am not sure the argument that it is widely known is correct. My mother also would not know that she is not supposed to say settee or lounge or toilet.

For the record, I am not 'anti- what'. I think I tend to say sorry. I don't say pardon. I suspect I say what sometimes. I am anti snobbery and sneering at people who use different language. I think a lot of the 'pardon is worse than fuck' is tongue in cheek, but equally it is being used to cover strong feelings in many cases. Although, of course, it is worth remembering that the only people who post on these threads are interested in discussing it, whereas many more will not even click on the thread.

Yes, you are right ,Galaxy - my reaction with regard to what you said about your mother was a bit of a knee jerk"oh,fgs,why can't people just make allowances for each other?" Which I also think about the scenario in Seeker's post,but missed that out. Not sure what you do about it - you can say in any situation what you have been taught to say and end up being judged.(And I know in RL it does all make a difference)

On my side,for the record I say sofa,front/back room,toilet/loo and wouldn't register which word someone else used,though I do register pardon.

That's because those who don't like pardon think its a bit common, bit twee, forelock tugging but accept that there is some attempt at manners whereas "what" is just rude.
and that is my point,trixymalixy Non pardoners accept people who use pardon are being polite,pardoners think "what is just rude".That is your perception,but there are plenty of people out there who are using "what" meaning to be polite because that is what they've been brought up to do.You can say "to me,what just sounds rude" but you can't reasonably say "what is just rude" - that is what some people think,but other people think differently - it is a matter of opinion!

I can't believe this thread is still going. How many more times do we need to posts variations on the same theme? Have we not said all there is to say on it now?

What?

There's nowt decent ont'telly, Fella!

Pride - I do agree with you (and sorry, reading back my last post, I said 'for the record' and 'by the way' rather a lot. That was bad editing and adding to my post as I went along. I realise it sounds a bit strident!). I think partly it is asymmetry of information. People who have been taught 'what' is rude will often have no idea that what can be anything other than rude. Those who dislike pardon are generally aware that people using it are trying to be polite.

I think, to an extent, many of the distinctions are dying out on their own. Not sure many people would maintain you should say looking glass and school mistress these days, other than the incredibly posh, who are always a law unto themselves and rarely give a fuck what anyone else does . I suspect we could also help by teaching our children that it's all about social codes. It's rather different to teach your child "I prefer the word 'what'" as opposed to "pardon is a horrible word which is worse than fuck". Teaching them that there is no 'right' and it is about preference and class is quite a useful lesson.

Totally agree with everything Galaxy has said throughout this thread.

I would add that this thread seems to show that there are words used by those who might be considered upper class, and also by those who are desperate to appear posh, what with all the all the outrage and shuddering and sneering (tbh I suspect the genuinely posh probably don't care all that much).

Aw, thanks Inertia

YY inertia, yer genuine aristocrats don't give a flying fuck (or pardon).