To have told SIL "no...NOT Pardon!"?

[MrsMushroom]

We're abroad with DHs family.

DD aged 4 didn't hear something SIL said.....DD said "What?" and SIL said "WHAT? WHAT??? I think you mean PARDON don't you?"

I HAD to say..."No...in England "what" is fine. Or If you prefer..."sorry, I didn't catch that."

Was I rude? I just don't want DD saying "Pardon" or even worse "P'don"

Oh and Merry Christmas everyone!

but in uber posh circles saying 'where's the bog' would be perfectly acceptable.

And that works for knowing when to say 'pardon' as well. Unless you don't give a stuff about alienating people because you are convinced of your own rightness. but I prefer to keep everyone happy and make everyone feel comfortable where possible.

In all fairness anybody who says " what" compleatly unconsciously without reason other than its how things are done with no risk of correction because everybody else in there social group also uses it.

Probably secretly giggles in there own head every time they hear someone attempt to justify why they use "what" and that its a class thing. Because people who are secure enough, just don't need to.

It could be considered the same as the social groups who say " pardon" in an attempt to make it look like they are in a different social group.

One group says pardon as to them its polite and correct for decent classy folk
One group says what as to them its polite and correct for decent classy folk

Whilst some just say what because they have no interest in people thinking they are classy folk because they don't really care.

I know Nancy which is why I said 'without a hint of irony'. A very posh person could carry it off, but otherwise it just sounds crass and uncouth.

...who was it that said the working classes and the upper classes have the most in common?

Can't remember. Someone important.

Ah. It gets more complicated. "Where's the bog?" would be absolutely fine in very posh circles, unless the event was very formal!

Don't know but it's so true!

I've heard toffs say 'carsey' as well

Calling it anything other than (shudder) the toilet is fine.

More seriously, the English language is absolutely packed full of social signifiers: we use language to show all kinds of things about our place of birth, the place we live, our gender, class, education, etc... A lot of this is conveyed in accent, some in the grammar of what we say, and some in the choice of words...

Pardon/what, toilet/lavatory and couch/sofa are just a few of the pairs of words that distinguish social class.

Tap/fawcet, nappy/daiper and car boot/trunk are a few words that distinguish British English from US English.

Snicket/lane/ginnel/alleyway/back alley and roll/bun/teacake/barmcake/muffin are words that show which part of Britain you live in...

And so on. It's interesting, if you can get beyond taking it personally!

Sue- even "powder room"? "little girls's room"?

I don't know, Nancy668, but I've always thought it true.

I've just spoken to my 17 year old about it. She is in the what/lavatory/napkin group but it would not offend her, as it does me, to hear them called by the alternatives, maybe it's an age thing.

What is fine, but my children would normally say, 'what did you say'.

I think it's the abruptness of 'what' that does make it sound a little rude, although I wouldn't be offended by it.

seeker "the little girl's room" would make me want to heave.

Yup, yerwot is one of my own preferred options usual, now I've been living up North so long!

My parents are upper class. My husband?s parents were working class. My husband and I are both middle class, but having approached middle-classness from different angles our vocabularies are quite different. Our as yet unborn daughter is going to have to be bi-class-lingual. However the What/Pardon debate for when you didn?t hear something is not going to be a problem - as both my husband and I say ?Say Again? which comes from army radio voice procedure. (We also ask each other for SitReps, on the phone.) The armed forces are where the upper and working classes meet.

Toilet is dreadful. Just dreadful.

I can't believe you haven't met anyone who objects to it. It's the most objectionable word ever

Can hardly bear to type it let alone say it.

It is

It really makes me judder a bit

I don't know why

It just sounds horrible!

How can you find the word toilet so objectionable when you probably see a sign that says toilet everywhere you go? It's in far more common usage than lavatory.

I tut at the signs :)