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Original poster

To have told SIL "no...NOT Pardon!"?

563 replies

MrsMushroom · 25/12/2012 07:25

We're abroad with DHs family.

DD aged 4 didn't hear something SIL said.....DD said "What?" and SIL said "WHAT? WHAT??? I think you mean PARDON don't you?"

I HAD to say..."No...in England "what" is fine. Or If you prefer..."sorry, I didn't catch that."

Blush

Was I rude? I just don't want DD saying "Pardon" or even worse "P'don"

Oh and Merry Christmas everyone! Grin

OP posts:
catgirl1976geesealaying · 28/12/2012 17:57

"Nick-oiz" Shock Grin

Haitch

Bloody hell, it's enough to make you consider home schooling! Grin

Pantomimedam · 28/12/2012 18:12

yeah, I've had the small child coming home from school and insisting it's toilet because that's what Miss X the teacher says. But the one that really bothered me was nursery teaching him to say 'ta'. I lived with it, though, because the assistants at nursery were lovely people who looked after ds really well and had endless patience with large groups of small people.

catgirl1976geesealaying · 28/12/2012 18:15

I think we might be starting get "ta" for the same reason :(

Which will be a shame as I find DS's little "fank ooooo" really sweet Grin

lidlqueen · 28/12/2012 18:22

oh we got 'ta-aa' from stepmother and her dd - put my teeth on edge really but it didnt last long and at least they were good enough to spend time with my children......

Pantomimedam · 28/12/2012 18:24

yes, a toddler saying 'ank oo' is so cute!

seeker · 28/12/2012 18:25

My children are trilingual- home, school and Yorkshire.

Works fine.

akaemmafrost · 28/12/2012 18:29

My dc aged 9 and 6 have never said the word pardon.

They say what? But I try to encourage "sorry, what did you say?" or "excuse me?"

Pardon makes me shudder even written down let alone saying it.

TheUKGrinchImGluhweinkeller · 28/12/2012 20:53

What you have to do is send them to school in a different language, in an area with few to no other English speakers - that way teacher can know everything about the community language, and you can know everything about English :)

Of course there are millions of draw backs to moving to a rural part of a non English speaking country if your sole objective is to achieve out and out authority on the English language within your own home, but my kids have never questioned my pronouncements about English usage (though perhaps I shouldn't rely so heavily on consulting a 7 year old about the correct German to use in notes to her teacher... :o )

TheUKGrinchImGluhweinkeller · 28/12/2012 20:55

What you shouldn't do is move to a part of the UK where you object to the local accent/ dialect, as forcing your children to speak differently to their peers does boarder on cruel and is either a losing battle or likely to isolate them, if they can't be linguistic chameleons (some, perhaps most, kids do it naturally, but not all)...

Greensleeves · 28/12/2012 21:02

I was taught that "lavatory" was hideously middle-class-social climber

my etepfather said "lavatory" and we all used to fall about sniggering and get thumped

he also made us all say "Pardon" and " excuse me"

for some reason it was "pardon me" for belches and "excuse me" for farting

he was horrendously middle-class jumped up climber, he used to tell me proudly that he wasn't allowed to play with the "village children" when he was little because he was better than them

his dad was a plumber ffs

I tend to say "come again?" or "I'm deaf, could you repeat it?" or similar. "Pardon" reminds me of my stepfather, and my abiding feeling about him was that he was an intolerant sneering little snob who thought he was better than other people. Which is not the ethic I want to transmit to my children.

Snowkey · 28/12/2012 21:27

When we were students working in the service industry we used to diliberately say to Americans who asked for directions to the Bathroom or Powder room, after a slight pause looking a bit confused, "Oh! you mean the TOILET? it's....." I know it's childish but we loved seeing their daft faces getting a bit uppity and upset over something so trivial. Pedants are so precious and easy to wind up at times. Grin

I've never said pardon, it sounds too nasal. "Sorry I didn't catch what you said" seem to work just fine.

PowerPants · 28/12/2012 22:07

IMO Americans have issues with death and use the euphemisms like 'passed on' and issues with shitting hence 'restroom'. You're not going to take a rest really are you? You are going to have a crap....

changeforthebetterforObama · 28/12/2012 22:52

"What" is ignorant. I don't care how much money you have (or perhaps you think that is a licence to be rude).

This is one of those fucked-up middle class up-our-own-arses affectations that drives me spare Angry

sue52 · 28/12/2012 23:00

How can "what did you say" asked in a polite tone be ignorant? How does it have anything to do with money? Pardon sounds apologetic and nothing has been done to need apologise for.

changeforthebetterforObama · 28/12/2012 23:03

Because people say "what" not "what did you say?" It is ignorant, sorry.

sue52 · 28/12/2012 23:17

You want someone to repeat what they said not pardon you for some offence. I still don't understasnd how saying the correct word is ignorant.

trixymalixy · 28/12/2012 23:29

It's the abruptness of the "what" on it's own that comes across as rude, snappy, aggressive. "what did you say" is fine, although I would probably prefer a sorry in front of it from my kids.

I don't like pardon either.

kim147 · 28/12/2012 23:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sue52 · 29/12/2012 00:00

I dislike pardon because it implies you have done something that needs excusing wheras what you want is for the person to repeat themselves and for that you need to ask a question. What, is the opening to a question, pardon is not. l
Pardon is a bit common although it is old fashioned to use common these days. I don't think pardon is rude, just rather twee and most of all, incorrect.

Stillstarving · 29/12/2012 00:56

But I don't honestly understand. Why do you care at all?

GalaxyDisaStar · 29/12/2012 10:02

I find all the linguistic attempts to justify 'what' a bit odd to be honest. I bet that the majority of these people would also cringe at settee and toilet. They are social signifiers. That is why people can't stand pardon. They don't want to be the type of person who uses pardon.

The idea that you mustn't apologise for not hearing is frankly baffling to me. A lot of the time when you do not hear someone, you weren't listening and giving your full attention. So should we alter what we say depending on whether we perceive fault or not? And, frankly, the English apologise all the time, whether or not something was their fault.

The 'what is the start of a question' argument I also struggle with. Pardon can also be short for 'I beg your pardon, I didn't catch that', and in English we quite often ask questions indirectly. Or ask questions we do not expect to have answered - 'How do you do' for example.

I think all those arguments are really attempts to justify the social prejudices of pardon. Which is fine, but I think it's better to be direct about it.

PrideOfChanur · 29/12/2012 10:10

Having read to the end of the thread what is really standing out to me is that the group of people who don't like "pardon" are fully aware that other people will use it and accept it as a variant,that they don'y personally choose to use or teach their DCs about.

The anti-what people seem to be unable to get their heads round the fact that many people using "what" are regular people who care about manners but use a different word in this particular circumstance.
Whoever it was who said if their mother interviewed someone for NQT post and heard "what" in an interview,she would assume badly brought up/no manners....I would expect a headteacher to be aware of "what" as a common non-rude usage in certain groups,and assess the interviewee accordingly.After all,the whole what/pardon thing isn't exactly a big secret,

And I would modify what I say in RL,but use "what" without thinking with friends and family.I don't bark it though,I am perfectly capable of saying it in a pleasant,questioning tone Confused (and I am not flipping well ignorant and uneducated.bah,how rude...)

trixymalixy · 29/12/2012 10:46

That's because those who don't like pardon think its a bit common, bit twee, forelock tugging but accept that there is some attempt at manners whereas "what" is just rude.

BaublesAndCuntingCarolSingers · 29/12/2012 11:04

Doesn't tone have a lot to do with it?

Pardon? could be said sarcastically, snappily, whatever. What? could be said lightly with a raised intonation, implying that you're simply asking "what was that?"

SherbetVodka · 29/12/2012 11:46

"Pardon" reminds me of my stepfather, and my abiding feeling about him was that he was an intolerant sneering little snob who thought he was better than other people

The anti pardon posts on this thread come across as extremely sneery and snobby to me. The piss taking of anything lower middle class or 'common' on mumsnet really makes me feel uncomfortable sometimes. (Yes, maybe I should just fuck off to Netmums)