To have discplined my SILs children as she was doing nothing...??

[Shinyballsandtinsel]

Two days ago, DH, me, our three DCs (9, 11, 13), granny, SIL and her two DCs went out for a meal in the evening (early about 7.00pm) for one of granny's landmark birthdays. We went to a chain pub, which later on turns into a club with bouncers on the door, no children after 9pm etc. It is in a town well known for stag/hen nights, however this time of year it is mostly Christmas parties.

It was very very busy, behind our table there were two long tables of about twenty people each, which looked like work do's. The bar was also very busy - there were steps leading down to the restaurant bit from the bar.

Our food arrived quite quickly. When we had finished our meal, we were waiting for the staff to bring plates for the birthday cake. My SILs older DC started running around and around the table very fast (aged 5yrs). SIL sat there doing nothing. Then the her younger DC started doing it also (aged 3yrs), whilst they were running the 3 year old ran into the legs of a fully laden waitress who nearly dropped all her plates. SIL still just sat there. They were running within close proximity of the people sitting on the end of the work do tables.

SIL was completely oblivious to it all, so I grabbed the 3yr old on his next run around, and plonked him down on a chair beside me, and said in quite a firm voice "sit down now, those people are having their dinner and Granny is about to have her cake". He immediately burst into tears, SIL glared at me, grabbed him on her lap. The 5 year old continued to run around the table, and then ran up the steps on her own into the bar area, my DH went to get her back, when she arrived back he put her onto her chair, she immediatley slid off under the table and started the running around thing again.

They have behaved like this before, I often make excuses for not going out when they are going to be there, as the children's behaviour, or rather the mother's complete oblivion to their behaviour actually winds me up. In the past she also literally just sits there whilst her children run around other people's tables, talk to strangers eating, ask if they can try some of their food (I kid you not!) and generally act as if they are in a playground. SIL has said in the past she thinks it cheers people up to see her kids smiley faces, and they are so freespirited and cute nobody could get annoyed with them..... Hence why I usually make my excuses, but as it was granny's landmark birthday couldn't get out of it.

Anyway, the saga continues - we all take it in turns to do Christmas dinner, this year is SILs turn to do it at her house. Today DH has received a telephone call to say that we are no longer invited for christmas day, as SIL is upset that I took it upon myself discipline her child, and it will ruin their Christmas if I do so again.

I am of the opinion that I am quite pleased not to have to go around there, and am happy to break away from the big family Christmas and start having Christmases at home with just our family, but Granny has now rung up very upset, and asked DH if I can apologise and make an excuse, i.e. say I was stressed at work or something.

I am not happy to do this, as I am not sorry. AIBU to not aplogise even though it will probably upset MIL?

There's a HUGE difference between parents trying desperately to teach a SN child "normal" behaviour, and keep them occupied while out in public, and parents who just let their "spirited" children run riot with no discipline at all. And it's usually the ones with (DX or unDX SN) who are more likely to take their kids out of the situation to have a break and calm down before their actions cause problems for others. And who have made the effort to ensure that, even if they HAVE to bring DCs to an unsuitable event (cos sometimes it's easier to keep the peace) that they have also brought things to occupy the kids and are willing to engage with the kids to NOT have bad behaviour as much as possible.

Believe me, I know.

Shiney, well done to your DH, and hope your smaller family Christmas, and more intimate BD get together, are the festive relaxing occasions you are aiming for.

"MIL has phoned DH at work, and told him SIL was very upset yesterday as she was called by a parent and asked to remove her oldest DC from a school friend"s birthday party as her DC had hit four children as she wanted what they were playing with. MIL said to DH "this is all she needs, after the upset with you and shiny"! "

and she still can't see that her DCs' behaviour is unacceptable and that her parenting needs to be changed?!

No news, BIL back this weekend, am expecting contact at some point over the weekend.

Yes MIL did phone DH at work specially to tell him about the birthday ejection, apparently after 3 smallish skirmishes one child was holding something that DN wanted and wouldn't give to DN so DN snatched then hit child across the face with it (not a soft toy, perhaps a toy robot?!). I think at that point the party host phoned SIL to remove her DC.

Its gonna be happening alot more now the DCs are getting older, and one day, one child will tell SIL's DC's exactly what they think of them. And hopefully one of the parents will tell SIL, in an unfriendly manner, so SIL gets the point.

Oh goodness...the kid no one wants to invite round

Going back about 800 posts with this, but I like Lego and have a lot of it, to the delight of my four GS. I built the technic digger as your older DS did, and it was the most difficult Lego I have ever built. I had to do it twice as one axle was wrong somewhere so one part did not function. I had to use needle nose pliers to hold some small parts to engage them where they were supposed to go. It took hours and hours to build it. It is up on a shelf and the GS can play with it, but they know to be careful. It was such a mean thing for his little cousin to purposely destroy it, and the aunt laughing it off was cruel.

He might have been a misbehaving thug even if she had firmly tried to control him (lord knows DS1 was like that for me). But I wouldn't have left DS1 alone at a party at that age precisely because I knew what he was like, & that I didn't have confidence he would behave without me keeping close tabs on him.

Which is precisely what SIL doesn't seem to recognise (?). That her DC need a firm hand.

will look forward to further Updates with juicy gossip detail.

I can't wait to hear the weekend update

Other people's children - where does one start! My SIL has a DD (4) who has already started hitting children and on one occasion a disabled child. My SIL just doesnt see that it is TOTALLY her fault - the way she treats her and lets her do whatever she likes and doesnt disipline. She has said to me on more than one occasion that ' you are hard and I am so soft' as though as I was some monster and she was the fairy princess.

One day someone bigger and stronger will hit back, or her DD will try it once too often and the play dates will dry up - have you ever seen a group of mums get together when something like this happens...word goes around like wildfire. My SIL will of course blame others - it couldnt possibly be anything that they are doing....

There is no doubt that SIL loves her kids, trouble is I think she equates love with not telling them no, not placing boundaries and not telling them off. If anything is construed as the slightest criticism (as was my disciplining them probably) she gets very defensive (in the past she has described herself as a tigress with her cubs delusional).

Although our kids are open season apparently to criticise, bless their little moving parts and whirring cogs!! Must go and oil a rag ready for their bath time.

Being a tigress about your kids is all very well . I would suggest that most of us are . But in real life , even a tigress unsheaths her claws to her cubs and gives them a cuff occasionally .

My SIL and yours could be the same person. It makes me sooo mad. Luckily they live os so sporadic contact. It never ceases to amaze me how crappily some parents bring up their kids.

Agreed chocolate

Keep updating op! I love hearing more! X

"in the past she has described herself as a tigress with her cubs"
Sounds like she's never actually seen any wildlife documentaries. Tigresses teach their cubs how to survive in their environment. She's no tigress.

The thing is, it doesn't matter how many people in your SIL's life object to the behaviour of her DCs, it's possibly too late. She clearly doesn't see that their behaviour is an issue, so how would she ever begin to address it? In order to influence your kids' actions,you need an opinion as to how you would like them to be. Her view appears to be different from most people's.

Ld friend of ours had a cousin like this. Her ds bit, and bit hard. She had been told by a psychologist to ignore the bad behaviour, so she did. What she didn't seem to understand was that mantra applies to behaviour that doesn't hurt or endanger the child or others. After my friend's dd having been bitten - blood drawn - for the second time, my friend decided that her child would no longer bee seeing her cousin's child. The fallout was immense. I'm not sure they're on speaking terms now, tbh, and this happened before dd was born (dd is now 13) . But I do know that the boy was expelled from 3 schools and had no friends. It makes the phrase "the sins of the fathers are visited on the sons" very meaningful, doesn't it? Poor child. You have to feel sorry for him.

Huge difference to parents who try their hardest to supervise challenging dc and those who don't bother...

What she's not getting is that nobody will make those children the centres of the universe other than her.
Your mil tolerates them as she is family, you and your dh have up til now tolerated them in spite of their behaviour and her attitude. Tbh her laughing at the smashed up Lego was worse than the smashing.

She's doing them no favours at all.

Other people who have no emotional links to them like parents of classmates etc wont tolerate them especially if they start to hurt other dc. They probably will find it difficult to make friends in school and teachers won't tolerate this type of free spirited behaviour in the classroom. They will not be invited for play dates party invites will dry up etc.
This will be horrible for the DC and upsetting for SIL but her totally her fault.

Can MIL have a gentle word especially following the party incident?

Obviously loads of posts so not read all but if the end result is your still not invited on Xmas day = a bloody good result!! I'd be jumping for joy and more than happy to just be with my family. I can't stand kids running around in restaurants and not being supervised. My son is 4 and knows a restaurant is for sitting down, eating and chatting together. He's happy to draw ( they usually have a kiddy pack in the pub chains) or just chat with us. He even makes me laugh when he frowns at unruly kids and says " they shouldn't be doing that should they mummy" it's not even about discipline it's about manners and common courtesy for others. I hope you don't back down and I hope you have a fab Xmas x

Re: the lego....
We had some friends who really indulged their kids (who in turn appeared to have no boundaries or any idea that other people may not find everything they do deeply endearing).

One day, their 7 year old decided to break my DS's toy car into a million pieces. Ds (age 5 at the time) was distraught but the mother just smiled serenely and explained that her DS loved to find out how things worked. I said that it was lovely to see his childish curiosity like this but as I had no idea how to put the toy back together again, would the mother mind doing it for my DS before she went home? She admitted defeat an hour later.

That was the last time she let her DS do whatever took his fancy without thought for others. (She never offered to replace the broken toy though, which was brand new and quite expensive).

Coming to this very late, but I don't think you were being unreasonable. I think it is up to parents how their children behave at home, just as others have the right to not go round if they feel it's unacceptable. However, in social situations where their behavior is impacting upon others, especially poor waiters/waitresses having to dodge small children, it is different and appropriate to intervene before someone gets hurt.

Also only just catching up . A woman after my own heart ! Glad dh is backing you on this one, maybe he has pent up frustration form years goen by.