To have discplined my SILs children as she was doing nothing...??

[Shinyballsandtinsel]

Two days ago, DH, me, our three DCs (9, 11, 13), granny, SIL and her two DCs went out for a meal in the evening (early about 7.00pm) for one of granny's landmark birthdays. We went to a chain pub, which later on turns into a club with bouncers on the door, no children after 9pm etc. It is in a town well known for stag/hen nights, however this time of year it is mostly Christmas parties.

It was very very busy, behind our table there were two long tables of about twenty people each, which looked like work do's. The bar was also very busy - there were steps leading down to the restaurant bit from the bar.

Our food arrived quite quickly. When we had finished our meal, we were waiting for the staff to bring plates for the birthday cake. My SILs older DC started running around and around the table very fast (aged 5yrs). SIL sat there doing nothing. Then the her younger DC started doing it also (aged 3yrs), whilst they were running the 3 year old ran into the legs of a fully laden waitress who nearly dropped all her plates. SIL still just sat there. They were running within close proximity of the people sitting on the end of the work do tables.

SIL was completely oblivious to it all, so I grabbed the 3yr old on his next run around, and plonked him down on a chair beside me, and said in quite a firm voice "sit down now, those people are having their dinner and Granny is about to have her cake". He immediately burst into tears, SIL glared at me, grabbed him on her lap. The 5 year old continued to run around the table, and then ran up the steps on her own into the bar area, my DH went to get her back, when she arrived back he put her onto her chair, she immediatley slid off under the table and started the running around thing again.

They have behaved like this before, I often make excuses for not going out when they are going to be there, as the children's behaviour, or rather the mother's complete oblivion to their behaviour actually winds me up. In the past she also literally just sits there whilst her children run around other people's tables, talk to strangers eating, ask if they can try some of their food (I kid you not!) and generally act as if they are in a playground. SIL has said in the past she thinks it cheers people up to see her kids smiley faces, and they are so freespirited and cute nobody could get annoyed with them..... Hence why I usually make my excuses, but as it was granny's landmark birthday couldn't get out of it.

Anyway, the saga continues - we all take it in turns to do Christmas dinner, this year is SILs turn to do it at her house. Today DH has received a telephone call to say that we are no longer invited for christmas day, as SIL is upset that I took it upon myself discipline her child, and it will ruin their Christmas if I do so again.

I am of the opinion that I am quite pleased not to have to go around there, and am happy to break away from the big family Christmas and start having Christmases at home with just our family, but Granny has now rung up very upset, and asked DH if I can apologise and make an excuse, i.e. say I was stressed at work or something.

I am not happy to do this, as I am not sorry. AIBU to not aplogise even though it will probably upset MIL?

As others have said - isn't this a get out of jail free card? SIL uninvited you to a big family event so she threw her toys out of the pram. Why couldn't she have talked about it to you over the phone rather than uninviting her brother and his family? Sounds like her kids aren't the only ones who need a lesson in how to behave... "Ruin her Christmas if you do it again"? Well if they're well behaved or she disciplines them herself then she's got nothing to worry about!

I hope MIL is speaking to SIL about her total over reaction at banning you from Christmas!!

I was friends with SIL before I met DH, she is quite a laid back person but not an unpleasant one. She just seems to not be able to set boundaries for her children. She did have her children when she was older after taking a long time to conceive, so perhaps its a precious first (and second) born thing..?

Honestly, I kid you not, she just sat there and carried on with her meal totally ignoring the fact that her two children were running laps around our table.

My DH finds it embarrassing too, he had managed to sit himself as far away from them as possible the git

Our DCs dote on their younger cousins too, although they get fed up once the bad behaviour starts, as I feel they also feel embarrassed. We did go out on one of our DCs birthdays with Granny without inviting SIL and her kids this year, and there was hell to pay.

I wouldn't apologise-just say 'I can't see what all the fuss is about-IMO it takes a village to raise a child.......I do it to any child and so am quite likely to do it again. Be prepared to do your own thing if she is going to continue to make it an issue. I wouldn't apologise because you will have a lifetime of biting your tongue.

I work in a Mexican restaurant and I LOVE kids- quite often I will hold a baby whilst the parents eat their meals or take a toddler for a stroll and things. Anyway just wanted to say even though I love children there is still nothing more annoying than children behaving in the way you described. Not only is it irritating and very off putting for other customers its also really dangerous, when little kids run into your knees when you're carrying a sizzling skillet of steak or whatever- I'm sure your SIL would quickly react if something got dropped on her children's heads!

So just wanted to say you definitely did the right thing- don't be sorry!

Completey agree with Shipwrecked it is a complete over reaction from your SIL. But like others have said, you will have a better stress free time at home. I have two sisters whose children are completely the opposite. One sister, her kids always sit nicely at the table as they have learned to do this from childhood. They also behave in public places. The other sister´s kids are a nightmare, don´t know how to sit at a table as they have never been taught to, when they were younger, they used to run in the road while their parents were oblivious, and when we were on holiday once, we ended up looking after them near the pool as DS thought it was just her holiday and could do what she liked. Never mind the dangers of her 3 YO DSs near the open pool. I used to tell my nephews off if DS did nothing. Sometimes she actually laughed at their behaviour which made it worse. I learned to step away from it though. Don´t get involved at all now and I´m much happier for it. Don´t give in, stick to your guns, you have done nothing wrong.

I think you have the moral high ground here and will get away with having Christmas at home.

Just tell granny you can't sit and tolerate that behaviour all over Christmas and as you have now been told your not welcome you will look forward to seeing granny on Boxing Day instead.

I'm so lucky that I don't have MIL, SIL, BIL to deal with, I wouldn't put up with any of it for a single second.

Have a lovely Christmas Day at home

I wouldn't apologise, if DH would back me up, and acknowledge to MIL that this is sad for her, but there will be repercussions!

shiney whatever happens (I like aspies idea) yadnbu; I would have lurved you if I'd been inthat restaurant :)

If you want to make peace you could say "I'm sorry that my disciplining your DC upset you", as you aren't sorry you did it, but probably are sorry that she can't either do it herself or handle you doing it for her.

But making the peace doesn't sound like a particularly desirable way to go.

Don't your children ask innocent but pointed questions of their aunt about their cousin's behaviour?

DH and I were always the ones who wanted our DC to sit and behave, and if I'm honest, I think I'm jealous of those who can just sit back and let it all happen . But it's totally unfair on others, and the children will not learn unless they are corrected. It's not as if you shouted at the child, you just stopped him behaving badly. If SIL was your friend, would there be any mileage in you going round when the DC are at school, to talk it over with her? I know you won't agree, but perhaps you can make her see that you weren't disciplining the child as such, but furthermore, that you would prefer she took responsibility for her DC when you are out together.

I wouldn't want anyone grabbing my child only because I'd want to sort out the little bugger myself I hate it when kids run round in restaurants etc. we never go out to eat without colouring and a little bag of toys.
Apologise? Not likely. Well I may say" sorry if you didn't like it but I didn't want your LOs injured." Sickly smile too.
Not having to deal with them at Christmas? Priceless!

I think you handled it badly clearly it was stressing you put before hand hence snapping at the child grabbing,plonking and using a 'firm' tone with a 3 year old is fairly aggressive IMO I can see why the child would be upset because within her own family boundaries she wasn't misbehaving.
You should have raised it with the mother before hand making it clear she needs to take control not loose you temper at the child.

Plus 7pm is LATE for 3 and 5 years old you have clearly forgotten this stage as your children are older.

We have had a similar situation. DH's nephew is an ill disciplined horror at times (unfair on him as problem is obviously BIL and SIL) and one Christmas Day DH snapped and told him off after hours of bad behaviour. There was a massive argument, MIL pleaded with DH to apologise or we couldn't all get together as a family as SIL refused to have PFB spoken to in such a way again.

DH apologised to PIL for causing an argument, didn't apologise for scolding nephew and we've never had to put up with one of the hellish get togethers since. Everyone is much happier

I have to stress I did not "snap" at the child. I was quite calm and did not do it aggressively. When I say I was firm, I mean the tone of my voice.

Re the lateness, we did mention this when inviting SIL hoping she wouldn't want to come but she said the children normally go to bed at 9pm so this wasn't a problem.

Completely against the grain, I would say YABU.

Of course it is unacceptable for children to be allowed to tear around like that but I think you should have either been much more gentle in your approach to the 3 year old as in 'careful, you'll run into a waitress again and they might accidentally spill something on you' or 'shall we come and have granny's cake now?'. OR butted out and waited for a member of the waitng staff to approach your SIL. You have long known what her parentsing style is, and that your intervention would not have been welcomed.

Furthermore, if it DID upest her, what is wrong with apologising for that and saying 'look, I wouldn't let my kids do it, but I realise it's each to their own, sorry I upset you, I'll keep myself to myself over it in future'? Because by digging your heels in you are just escalating a situation that she has already escalated, and poor Granny will feel like piggy in the middle because it all started at her event that should be leaving her with happy memories.

If your SIL allows her kids to dash about over Christmas, that is her business and if you are not prepared to leave her to her way then I can see she would fear a tense Christmas.

Whether you go for Christmas in the end or not (and you may prefer not to) you need to sort this situation out with something other than a stand off or it will becme a long running festering family feud, to everyone's misery.

Your SIL was out celebrating her mother's birthday. It wasn't primarily your occasion. But, even if it was jolily, you hoped she wouldn't go? For Granny's special birthday?

YANBU. You didn't discipline her child, you kept them and others out of danger.

I would call SIL and tell her you are not willing to apologise for her lack of parenting. You were not harsh at all and if she can't accept that then tough.

Could you say that whilst you aren't prepared to apologise, you would, of course, refrain from 'disciplining' her children over Christmas.

She sounds very hard work. I wouldnt want to spend my christmas with a family like that so maybe this is all a good thing?

You used the words 'grabbing' and 'plonking' that sounds like you snapped hardly saying a few words to the child.

LittleBairn has a point. Most 3yos are ready to drop by 7pm.

I have sympathy for the OP, as other people's uncontrolled children are awful. But equally your reaction could have been perceived by SIL and presumably MIL as a bit strong for a preschooler. That might just be a parenting style thing.

I think you have to mend fences with SIL, but I don't think you have to admit to wrongdoing.

YANBU . Your sil will.make herself a social outcast . people wont reprimand the children but wont tolerate her lax parenting .My bil was threatened to be punched by one restaurant customer because his kids were so annoying and he wasn't doing anything . She will soon find out people wont tolerate her or kids bad behaviour .

I wouldn't be apologising, in fact I don't think my mum or granny would be at all happy at their family children running around in any kind of restaurant so definitely would not be asking me to apologise. 7pm is a bit late for a 3 year old though, I remember us having to take the rest of our evening meal as 'room service' when our pair were 3 as they were starting to be fractious.

Fast forward 18 months and they managed perfectly well in France at 10pm although this was accidental, we didn't actually mean to be still out that late!

its also really dangerous, when little kids run into your knees when you're carrying a sizzling skillet of steak or whatever- I'm sure your SIL would quickly react if something got dropped on her children's heads!

This is a really good point. If you end up feeling you have to make amends (I won't say apologise as I don't really feel you have anything to apologise for), perhaps you can come at it from that angle.

"I'm sorry you feel I overstepped the mark when we went out to dinner. It was very busy and I was concerned that the children running about may have caused an accident and been hurt by heavy dishes/hot food/drinks."

You are then saying your are sorry for SIL's feelings in the subject, not for actions, and that it was out of concern for her children, rather than telling them off.

She's appeased, you haven't actually apologised, granny gets to see everyone at Christmas (although I can totally see why you'd rather not tbh!).

I don't see why you feel their behaviour affects you? If anything, they're an embarrassment to her, not to you. It's not your job to discipline other people's children, especially when their mother doesn't give a shit.

I think you've just got your knickers in a twist over something that wasn't your responsibility. If you saw the children running around, you should have said something to the mother not go and start manhandling them.

I think you're in a situation now, where you're not apologising because technically you did the right thing, but it wasn't your place to do so.