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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

not to send dd to dads when she is ill?

152 replies

pinguthepenguin · 14/12/2012 12:03

DD 5 has chickenpox, some of which are in some VERY painful places. She was due to to dads on wed for an overnight, but I said she wasnt fit. I have had to take a week of unpaid leave to care for her, but he was proposing to let his nany care for her ( who dd doesnt really know) I offered him to visit her here - he declined. He demanded a phonecall at a specific time, but she just wasnt up to it and I told him so, but said I would make sure she called as soon as she was better.
Cue a flurry of emails calling me obstructive, he would be telling the courts, his solicitior, I have denied him contact with his own child, bla bla. He said he had xmas plans and I have denied those to our dd as well as his other children.

The rational part of me says he is being irrational, but he always manages to make me doubt myself. I NEVER cancel contact btw ( although he would say differently). As it stands, poor dd is right now sucking on icepops on the sofa because her mouth is blistered Sad

Was I unreasonable?

OP posts:
bunchamunchycrunchycarrots · 14/12/2012 14:58

Well boo fucking hoo. It's a tree FFS. Not the second coming.

Original poster
pinguthepenguin · 14/12/2012 15:00

bunchy - I had tried to explain to him that dd's time isnt something that should be seen as a balance sheet, that needs 'balancing'. It is neither his, mine nor dd's fault that she is ill, but he wont have it.
He simply reiterated his position that he will be logging this incident for the courts and that they can decide.

OP posts:
bunchamunchycrunchycarrots · 14/12/2012 15:09

Well let him pingu - you are NOT unreasonable, and I doubt the court will see you as being so. They'll just see him as being an arse for ranting about an unfortunate illness that has affected his time (no one's fault) and you having plans in place that you are perfectly entitled to proceed with, given the circumstances. You do not have to capitulate just because he's having a tantrum. YOU are not depriving your DD, or his family of anything, you have your own plans (which might still be cancelled due to illness) and if you agree to send her even if she's still not up to it, he'll just keep ramping up the intimidation if you have to cancel that as well. Don't do it - you have no reason to even consider his view on anything to do with your time with your DD and your plans (if you can still go ahead with them). Stick to a polite sorry but that won't be possible under the circumstances, but you are free to come and visit DD anytime while she recouperates.

I know this is hard for you, and I understand your fears, but you really have no reason to think what you are doing here will be viewed as you being obstructive. You are most definitely not.

IneedAsockamnesty · 14/12/2012 15:10

and as the Dad had a court order he showed up with the police and took his daughter anyway (he was a fucking prick) I don't know if she had been obstructive beforehand (he said yes, she said no), but because it was in place apparently he was entitled to take her on 'his days' whether she was ill or not. Bloody awful situation for the poor little girl.

Is this the uk? It's odd if it is as the police do not get involved with contact stuff he would have had to take her back to court.

mrsscoob · 14/12/2012 15:13

I wouldn't send her no. Let him rant about the court, it isn't his weekend he doesn't have a leg to stand on he is just trying to bully you. Don't let him.

Original poster
pinguthepenguin · 14/12/2012 15:19

Honesty, he just will not accept that things sometimes happens, and that is not an attempt by me to sabotage family life ( his words)
Some of the many examples of this are:

  • I once asked him to collect dd an hour later as she was scheduled for her final injections. He said I did this to interfere with family life.
-I once asked him to swap the midweek visit with me because dd had world book day and wanted to go. He said I was trying to interfere with family life.
  • One time he was taking dd on holday the same day as I was returning from mine. He arranged to collect her from me at the aiport but went to the WRONG one I took a taxi straight to my house, rather than the train ( to the tune of £80 quid) to save the day. That was an attempt by me apparantely to sabotage their family holiday.

He wont ever swap with me, or collect dd an hour or so later if she is a party because that too, is an attempt to interfere with family life. Ironically, he isnt embarrased to do all this, then ask me to swap and change. If I object to that, yep.. yo've guessed it....I am denying dd the right to her family life'

JESUS!!!

OP posts:
IneedAsockamnesty · 14/12/2012 15:27

And it is unlikely you will have any problems from a court perspective if you keep hold of her on the one weekend in a month your supposed to have her.

It's also highly unlikely he would actually go to court because of it

Original poster
pinguthepenguin · 14/12/2012 15:29

sock we are already in court because he wants dd to live with him at weekends. I rejected that at the intial hearing, so we are now headed for mediation, then another review hearing in feb

OP posts:
IneedAsockamnesty · 14/12/2012 15:29

Are you able to communicate with him totally via email or letter?

He would be hard pushed to look rational with stuff like that if he has to put it in writing

Pandemoniaa · 14/12/2012 15:31

I've never understood how using children as a weapon can possibly do other than "interfere with family life". How is family life enhanced by removing a poorly child from the comfort of home?

This man sounds like a complete bully and I hope you can get some decent legal advice in order to stop him using her like a package in which to base his control around.

IneedAsockamnesty · 14/12/2012 15:33

I know.but he will look like a bully if he brings her being ill and you not changing your weekend in court hence why its unlikely. And if he does you have medical evidence she was ill its not unreasonable for a child to wish to remain with a parent when they are ill, he will look barking by doing so, as long as you are able to express what happened without letting him intimidate you in the court.

He is relying on the threat keeping you under control.

NicknameTaken · 14/12/2012 15:34

Pingu, no advice, just sympathy from me - I also have a 5yr old and an ex who is constantly threatening me with court. Indeed, we're back in court next week. The only consolation I can offer is that it's not forever - dcs get older, and in a few years will be able to make these decisions for themselves, and hopefully they will see for themselves which parent has their well-being as the primary concern.

If you can genuinely show that you have tried hard to facilitate contact throughout the years, then I would go ahead and stick to your plans this weekend.

There is a certain type of person who, the more you give into them, they more they act the bully.

Original poster
pinguthepenguin · 14/12/2012 15:35

yeah sock, in his email this morn he said that "I had clearly denied dd her time with him and his family on the usual contact day, as well as disrupting the plans that had been made for all of the children together. He also said I had also now refused telephone contact, and he would be recording it for the courts will let them decide"

How does that sound to you?

OP posts:
Original poster
pinguthepenguin · 14/12/2012 15:40

I didnt refuse telephone contact by the way - I would NEVER do that. She just didnt want to talk on the phone and said so. She was lying on the bed all day, listless. I said I would make sure she called him as soon as she felt up to it. I have sent an email this morn to say I will see if she is up to it tonight, even though she is saying she doesnt want to. She loves her dad, not wanting to talk on the phone is genuinely cos of how she is feeling, nothing else.

The irony of this, is that he is very obstructive with phone contact. She is with him for a week over xmas this year, and i KNOW now that I wont get to speak to her on xmas day because of this.

OP posts:
snowqueenrollo · 14/12/2012 15:43

he sounds like a pompous arse. A self-entitled pompous arse.

I can't comment on court because it's not a road I've been down. But I do have 50/50 care of my DS with my ex. The only 'balancing' of time we do is when things like holidays come up, or family events. I've missed time with DS, and likewise so has his dad when he's been too ill for it to seem sensible to move him from one home to another just because it's 'my' day. There's no 'catch up'.....we just slot back into our routine as seamlessly as possible. At that age (started 50/50 when DS was 2.5 and he's now 7) routine is quite important. Ex and I made lots of sacrifices in our social and work lives to enable us to stick to a routine. It meant DS is settled.

I wouldn't give him this weekend. you have not sabotaged his time with his child. His child is ill and if he doesn't have the humility to put her needs first then let him tell the court how he sees it. Anyone with half an ounce of sense will see how unreasonable he is being.

Pipsytwos · 14/12/2012 15:45

I don't think you're being unreasonable. My step son stays with us every weekend. If he's poorly my partner gives him a ring and says it's up to him where he wants be. More often than not he stays with his mummy, and just comes to us the next weekend. Rarely, he'll come to us and we set him up on the sofa with dvds and try to make him feel better. Now and then he'll stay an extra night 'to make up the time' which can come from either my partners request or the ex's. All of which is not a problem, we have plans every weekend for him but if he's ill he's ill, that's just what happens sometimes. I think you're ex is being unfair and I don't think he's thinking of his daughters comfort, if she wants to be at home with her Mummy then that's the way it should be.
Although I can understand him being sad about missing time. Same as you're sad at the idea about missing out on your time. So try to empathetic and if an arrangement can be made even if it's just she goes there for a couple of hours on Sat morn, if not I wouldn't worry too much. That's just the way things go sometimes.
He does sound a bit bullying and very quick to get angry with you. I don't think there's any need for it. Don't rise to it, be sympathetic but put your daughters feelings above both of yours in your responses.

CecilyP · 14/12/2012 15:46

He either doesn't have a clue how serious chicken pox is, or he is a total prat. Denying your DD her time with him and his family - like she wasn't too sick to care. He really doesn't have any understanding that a child can be so ill that she doesn't want to speak to anyone on the phone.

... and to convince yourself you are right, and lots of people will pitch in and support you, which gives you a great feeling of vilification. However it would be equally as easy to create the same narrative from your ex's point of view, I tried it a few times on issues we were arguing about and it really made me think about how he was seeing things.

Following stellarossa's post upthread, I have tried to imagine your ex posting from his point of view and there is not a single thing he could have said that would make me feel he was being reasonable. Children get sick and sometimes it inconveniences people, and sometimes it spoils pre-Christmas celebrations, and sometimes it spoils Christmas itself and, you know what, most adults are mature enough to cope with this.

HappyMummyOfOne · 14/12/2012 15:46

Its a hard one, he is her father and should be able to care for her equally as well as you can. If she fell ill during his contact time, then he would be caring for her then anyway.

If he only gets contact two days out of seven then its not unreasonabe to ask for a day at the weekend if you didnt let him see her mid week. If the tables were turned snd you only got 2 days a week would you honestly be happy? Somehow i doubt it.

I hate battles over seeing the children though, the courts need to get more modern and start at 50/50 as both parents are equal. Neither is more important than the other.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots · 14/12/2012 15:46

That sounds to me like the rantings of a lunatic, when taken in the true context of your DD being ill and you not having 'refused' or 'disrupted' anything. Seriously Pingu, if he isn't seen as the total loon that he is, then I'll drop dead from the utter shock that anyone could see what you have done here is reflected in that immature wankerish ranting.

Pipsytwos · 14/12/2012 15:52

And by the way you sound very reasonable about contact. If anything big happens like Christmas, birthdays etc on weekends which is our time we wouldn't have a chance in hell of having him! You do sound like you're being very reasonable and he just looks like he's wanting a fight with you and to play the victim!

Original poster
pinguthepenguin · 14/12/2012 15:53

Happymummy. I didnt not 'let him see her;. She was/is too ill! I didn't take her on a holiday, or a day our. She is ill. If she fell ill on his contact time, I would accept that, and I would ask if I coulg go and see her ( not that he would let me btw). We are very different creatures he and I. I have offered 3 times for him to come here and see her, he refuses. IOs that REALLY about dd?

Someone said upthread about children having lesser rights than adults when it comes to these matters and it make me think that its true. Who on earth would think it reasonable for a sick adult to visit the other? Who would think that?

And as for 50-50. thats another discussion.

OP posts:
snowqueenrollo · 14/12/2012 15:54

happymummyofone she didn't refuse to let him see her.....she offered an alternative which he refused.
No parent is happy about losing their contact days but when your child is ill then you need to grow up a little bit and take a loss of contact that week on the chin. I'd rather my poorly son was feeling secure at his dad's getting over an illness, then here with me (meaning getting dressed, into a car, 20 min journey etc) just because I was in danger of losing my time with him.

HalleLouja · 14/12/2012 15:56

From the title I originally thought you were being unreasonable but you so totally aren't.

We used to spend one weekend with my dad and then alternate with one day. We didn't really see him in the week though. There were moments my parents clashed but on the whole all was ok. But my dad is a lovely guy and not like your ex.

I would say if he wants her this weekend it can only be Saturday as you have plans on the Sunday.

IneedAsockamnesty · 14/12/2012 16:05

The info from the email he sent you reads as if he has no concept of his child being ill.

I would not respond other than to say

I am concerned at the implication that dd did not attend contact due to anything other than a genuine medically assessed contagious illness, dd would have liked it if you had have been able to visit her at her home without the need for her to travel when ill how ever you did not wish to. I would like to add that due to her illness talking on the phone has been a struggle.

Other than that just do not get into it with him, there is no need and he then has nobody to help his pettiness

IneedAsockamnesty · 14/12/2012 16:05

I ment would be a struggle