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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want my friend to bring her 6mo to our Christmas meal?

999 replies

forbiddenfruit85 · 06/12/2012 21:25

Be prepared I have my judgey pants on.

We have organised our meal for the weekend before Christmas. Friend is bringing her 6mo baby because the one and only time she has left him, he refused to take the bottle.

She has since then never bothered to try again. My baby took ages to take to the bottle too so I know how hard it is, but I persisted and eventually we got there.

The table is booked for 8 and we will be there is probably at least 10 so its going to be late. The restaurant is fully booked so it's going to be noisy. I just don't feel this is a great environment for a baby.

aibu to not want her to bring him along?

(she has a bf and they live with his family so there isn't a shortage of people willing to look after him)

OP posts:
jumpingjane · 08/12/2012 14:58

Mathsanxiety:
'The concept of exclusive breastfeeding by itself, along with the concommitant concept of the fourth trimester, involves embracing the fact that babies do not breastfeed purely for physical nourishment, so the idea that a baby of 6 months who is breastfed could and should be left at home and fed from a bottle does not square with the concept of EBF.' Mathanxiety

Of course some bf babies feed for comfort/ to drift off to sleep. However, it is also perfectly possible for a bf baby to be fed for nutrition in the same way that a bottle fed baby is. It is therefore a big leap from agreeing that some bf babies feed for reasons other than nourishment to say that therefore all EBF infants should not and cannot be left at home for an evening.

I think that you will find the reasons why mothers choose not to BF to be much more complex than the one you suggest, ie because they feel that other people may not be tolerant of their choices.
I think that judgements exist both ways- both in trying to encourage BF mothers to stop and in berating bottle feeding mothers for not trying. There are frequently threads on here about this sort of thing.
Frankly, you come across as pretty judgemental yourself and fixed in your views about how infants should be fed and how mothers should be treated.

LoopsInHoops · 08/12/2012 15:02

Also, forgive me if I've missed this, but the OP doesn't say what sort of event it is, or who will be there. This makes quite a difference.

If friends, I really think they should encourage their friend to come however she can (if they actually like her, hard to tell from OP). If it's work colleagues, I suppose it depends on how important it is for her to be there.

At the end of the day though, unless it was set out as a child-free even from the start, I don't think OP should be dictating what her 'friend' does with her own child.

WinkyWinkola · 08/12/2012 15:05

Will there be dancing on tables? People screaming with drunken hysterical laughter? People staggering about the restaurant in uncontrollable bacchanalian lurches? Will the welfare of the child really be at risk?

It's a restaurant not G.A.Y. or a library - full of reasonable noise and chat. And if you're the sort of person who says they can't relax if there's a child around because you're constantly looking out for its welfare - that is your weird problem. Hmm Nobody else's.

I think the friend should be able to take the baby out to a restaurant if she wants to. If it cries or gets upset, then she should either bf it or leave.

Who says babies of 6 months should be in bed by 7pm? Who is in charge of all the babies to issue that diktat earlier up the thread?

But it's really really really not a big deal. Nobody else has to hold or look after the baby if they don't want to.

pigletmania · 08/12/2012 15:51

Op is Organising the event and by the sounds of it wants an adult only function meaning NO BABIES OR CHILDREN so therefore the friend has to stay at home for this one, yes babies can be taken out, I've taken mine out to events where it was babies and children too, but would stay away if it was adults only. 8-10pm is late for a baby tat young, I know my ds would be unable to sleep with clattering plates, taking and hustle an bustle going on and be really grumpy and whining until we got home to his cot.

pigletmania · 08/12/2012 15:54

Generally in the evening babies and children are tired and wanting to go down for the night it stands to reason, it's biological, sleep hormone kicks in during te evening

PickledInAPearTree · 08/12/2012 15:57

Well there may be shouting and loud singing and maybe a lot if noise.

It is a busy restaurant at Christmas after all.

Mr tumble ain't going to be there that's for sure.

LoopsInHoops · 08/12/2012 16:27

Well then she should have stated it was adults only, shouldn't she? But no, she says herself that she didn't organise it.

I have no idea what a 6 month old baby would want Mr Tumble for, but I'm quite sure they won't mind a bit of festive cheer. Unless the meal is being held in a coke den?

Shock Loud singing! Whatever next! Shock

shesariver · 08/12/2012 16:49

You have never seen a baby being changed on a bouncy castle because those who do can do it without being seen. That was my point.

Says the person who claims no-one seen them..on an unoccupied bouncy castle, mmm let me think of the connection to no witnesses....

miaowmix · 08/12/2012 16:59

This reply has been deleted

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WinkyWinkola · 08/12/2012 16:59

Piglet, your ds's preferences are not the same as everyone else's. And lots of young babies still don't know the difference between night and day at that age. The baby being in a grump is only the concern of the parent. Nobody else's.

scottishmummy · 08/12/2012 17:08

i wouldnt take my baby out in evening to restaurant for work do.nosiy, drinking,hot foods
i dot think op is unreasonable not wanting baby at work do.i wouldn't
but not op call whether or not mum uses a bottle

LoopsInHoops · 08/12/2012 17:10

Is it a work do?

NettoHoHoHoSuperstar · 08/12/2012 17:12

Will there be dancing on tables? People screaming with drunken hysterical laughter? People staggering about the restaurant in uncontrollable bacchanalian lurches?
If I'm there then absolutely. Xmas Grin
It's a Christmas night out, it should involve drunken antics.
And btw, no, I'm not going on one, because I have an illness which means I can't, but if I ever can, I do not want babies on it.
Or children come to think of it, or speshul 24/7 milkbar mummies.

scottishmummy · 08/12/2012 17:15

she said its after work?adults, restaurant,alcohol,hot foods
op isnt wrong irrespective of how baby fed i wouldn't take a baby to restaurant
i didnt attend evening dos and bring my baby,nor would i

scottishmummy · 08/12/2012 17:23

i may add i couldnt wait to see work colleagues and pals for do.no way was baby coming
i was velcroed to my babies i liked gettin away too
week before xmas place will be heaving i woudnt take baby to that id want break, cut loose

DolomitesDonkey · 08/12/2012 17:37

Yanbu.

I can't think of anything worse than someone "mummying" up my raucous night. Tell her to do one.

StarOfLightMcKings3 · 08/12/2012 17:47

There was no-one ON the bouncy castle. There were crowds AROUND the bouncy castle. But this has fuck all to do with the arguments for and against those issues raised in the OP and subsequently.

Many comments in relation to my posts are purely for personal point scoring regardless of the relevance to the discussion. Mine were for illustration. It IS bullying behaviour.

Viviennemary · 08/12/2012 17:50

Maybe the child wouldn't be allowed in the restaurant after a certain time especially if it's licensed. I tried to look up the laws but they were mostly related to Scotland and Ireland. A lot of restuarants do have rules re babies. And those who don't I expect rely on the common sense of people. And it just isn't common sense to take a baby on a night out. Why would it be. If you can't get a babysitter stay in and give everyone else a break even if you can't have one yourself.

mathanxiety · 08/12/2012 17:51

'Of course some bf babies feed for comfort/ to drift off to sleep. However, it is also perfectly possible for a bf baby to be fed for nutrition in the same way that a bottle fed baby is. It is therefore a big leap from agreeing that some bf babies feed for reasons other than nourishment to say that therefore all EBF infants should not and cannot be left at home for an evening... Frankly, you come across as pretty judgemental yourself and fixed in your views about how infants should be fed and how mothers should be treated. '

All bf babies feed for comfort. They also feed for nutrition. The two are not mutually exclusive. Sucking is a big thing for all babies and for one who is used to sucking on a nipple often nothing else will do as the two (comfort and nutrition) are combined. Some are more able to adapt to the dummy or the bottle. Some are not. Some mothers prefer to ebf and some do not.

How infants should be fed:
I have no interest in how babies are fed apart from my own (contrary to your suggestion that I am engaging in some sort of breast vs bottle debate).

How mothers should be treated:
However, how women treat each other and disparage each other's decisions is of great interest to me, as I am a woman myself and a mother too. And a feminist. I have never said anything like 'all EBF infants should not and cannot be left at home for an evening.' What I have tried to point out is that many mothers choose to do their own thing and resist what is expected of them and they are damned for it instead of being supported by other women. Rigid diktats along the lines of 'no place for a baby' or 'babies should be tucked in bed by X hour' or 'she is a selfish mother' are offered in place of understanding of and respect for the breastfeeding relationship the mother described by the OP seems to have managed to establish. What it boils down to is that breastfeeding = martyrdom (and perversely selfishness at the same time.)

Are you suggesting that a woman who thinks other women should not dictate to her about how or where or when she feeds her baby should wind her neck in and that women have the right to shun or deride each other for making unusual decisions?

What I have said about mothers and their decisions is that nobody should ever dream of making derogatory comments about a mother who chooses to be with her baby all day every day.
This sort of dreadful comment, for example:
'..speshul 24/7 milkbar mummies.'

mathanxiety · 08/12/2012 17:59

It is a Christmas event and the people invited are coming after work but there is nothing to suggest it is a work do. In fact, it seems to be a friends getting together thing. The OP didn't organise it and asked the person who did whether their mutual friend was bringing the baby. Cue the resentment.

scottishmummy · 08/12/2012 18:29

irrelevant whether work do or not.its a "do" alcohol,social and adult time
i wouldnt appreciate a baby coming to any do i was attending
i dont thinks is appropriate if need be they see the pal socially at another time

MistressIggi · 08/12/2012 18:35

But from what you've said Scottishmummy, you wouldn't be seeing this woman anytime with her baby, as you think no 'do' should involve a baby.
I think there's a big difference between work dos and ones with close friends, and more differences even within work events (average age of worker, restaurant you choose, whether the boss is going..)

scottishmummy · 08/12/2012 18:38

do read my posts might stop you surmising wrongly
id happily meet baby and pal
but not at evening do with alcohol,hot food,at busy restaurant in run to to xmas

scottishmummy · 08/12/2012 18:47

big difference between afternoon lunch with pals and baby,to do in fully booked busy restaurant
it wouldn't occur to me to bring my baby in such circumstances
op is right to have misgivings

LaQueen · 08/12/2012 18:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.