to not want my friend to bring her 6mo to our Christmas meal?

[forbiddenfruit85]

Be prepared I have my judgey pants on.

We have organised our meal for the weekend before Christmas. Friend is bringing her 6mo baby because the one and only time she has left him, he refused to take the bottle.

She has since then never bothered to try again. My baby took ages to take to the bottle too so I know how hard it is, but I persisted and eventually we got there.

The table is booked for 8 and we will be there is probably at least 10 so its going to be late. The restaurant is fully booked so it's going to be noisy. I just don't feel this is a great environment for a baby.

aibu to not want her to bring him along?

(she has a bf and they live with his family so there isn't a shortage of people willing to look after him)

[PickledInAPearTree]

LAST POST BOOM!

[PickledInAPearTree]

Well I wouldn't expect that Math. I would NOT expect a large group of my friends to somehow find a baby friendly restaurant at this time of the year. Its hard enough getting tables. Everywhere has parties and special menus. Are you suggesting the local soft play?

I think you have this fantasy where this poor poor woman never sees anyone and is in the house 24 hours a day with babies hanging off both breasts.

When you have a baby at home you face a few facts, sometimes, just sometimes, you have to stop at home. I have, everyone else has. I wouldnt be so utterly rude as to try and dictact one night out to suit me. I would say, can we do a lunch as well maybe, or an early evening get together where I can come too AS I CANT MAKE THAT ONE AS I CANT LEAVE BABY X RIGHT NOW.

Dont you think anything else is just bloody selfish?

To be honest I dont even think you agree with yourself you have argued yourself around several houses up a tree and into a corner here.

[Janeatthebarre]

It may have been your experience Math but you seem to be giving the impression on here that Irish mothers regularly socialise at night with their babies in tow. I grew up and still live in Ireland and that is definitely not the case. Neither is it common practice, when a group of female friends are planning a night out for Christmas, that they would plan it around a friend's baby and meet up at six in order that the baby could be off the premises at nine. The majority of them would react just as people on here have reacted to that type of suggestion. Nights out are for adults. If you can get a babysitter you come along. If you can't you don't. Showing up with your child in tow because you're 'entitled' to a night out would be considered rude and inconsiderate to the rest of the group.

[mathanxiety]

'A baby should be tucked up in their cot' is prescriptive. It is just your own opinion and applies only to your own baby. You have no right to expect that someone else should abide by it any more than ForbiddenFruit has any right to expect another mother to persist with the bottle the way she did. I am also a mother of five and if a friend of mine was unable to leave her baby for whatever reason to get out with mates I would not be miffed in the least. The difference between mine and other people's babies is that they are other people's babies (as EdgarAllenPond said upthread). They barely register on my radar. I am not so fed up to the back teeth of babies that I cannot stand to be in their presence one minute more than I have to. Life is too short to get so worked up about other women's choices, and I believe that on principle we need to support each other as mothers, not add to the constant chorus of detraction and 'should' that surrounds us.

'..you cannot compare a quiet dinner in the US (where they eat so fucking early and barely sniff the vino) with a Christmas get-together in the UK or Ireland for that matter.' Aside altogether from the fact that Americans are a good deal less sedate than that description would suggest, it seems there are quintessentially British elements to this after all?

Janeatthebarre, I would hope that a bunch of good friends would choose a restaurant on the basis of being welcoming to babies, given that it seems common knowledge to the group that this one member brings her baby with her due to the EBF thing, and that they would also do their utmost to get their meal in before the witching hour (and if that is not possible before Christmas then the get together would be held afterwards when restaurants are not so jammed and a lot of women could use a break from turkey leftovers and the company of their nearest and dearest). That has been my experience of Irish life (and life in other parts).

[irishchic]

I just want to weigh in here. As a mum of 5 under 13, having done the whole breasfeeding malrakey and loving kids etc etc I would HATE if someone decided to bring their 6 month old along to our girls get together. At 8pm a baby should be tucked up in their cot with Dad babysitting downstairs while mum has a bit of adult time.

So no OP, Yanbu. And i think the majority here supports you.

[wordfactory]

Also, you cannot compare a quiet dinner in the US (where they eat so fucking early and barely sniff the vino) with a Christmas get-together in the UK or Ireland for that matter.

The one is highly appropriate for a baby. The other...not so much.

[Janeatthebarre]

Aaagh 'cannot not'?? I meant can not. It is not the law in Ireland that all your children must be brought to a pub by 9pm at the latest

[Janeatthebarre]

Actually, in Ireland children cannot not be on a licensed premises after 9pm so this friend would legally have to leave the restaurant after an hour. So no, definitely we are not a country that welcomes small children into our pubs and restaurants at night time. Some restaurants actually have their own rule that children cannot be on the premises after 7pm - in deference to adults who do not want their meal out being ruined by some inconsiderate parents who let their kids do what they like.

[OTheHugeInDavidsManatee]

C'mon guys, we're nearly at 1000 posts! Keep going! You can do it

[mathanxiety]

Have I compared the Brits to the French? I think you are thinking of someone else.

Yes, I have lived in the US, but my name is math without the s because those are my RL initials.

Temple Bar is very touristy/stag-hen nightey and a lot of Dubliners stay away for that reason. Contrary to images of the Irish, not everyone in Dublin enjoys puddle o' puke hopping late at night for the sake of entertainment or in order to prove that they are not getting old.

[ScampiFriesRuleOK]

Math Seeing as you're so cultured and continental and love comparing Brits to the French, have you actually lived in France? Have you at least read "French Children Don't Throw Food"? If so, you'll be aware that whilst France does have somewhat more of a "whole family" approach to dining-out (because they eat out more often and it's their equivalent of Brits taking the kids to Pizza Express), their babies are also seen as very much NOT utterly integral to their mothers' entire raison d'etre and identity.

In fact, the vast majority of French mothers have their babies taking the bottle or weaned and in a healthy sleep/wake routine looooong before they are 6 months, in order to allow both the baby and the mother a reasonable sense of personal identity.

A group of French women on a night out would be utterly bemused and mildly horrified if one of their party brought a 6 month old child along and sat changing it's nappy in the restaurant/bar because they don't have an epidemic of mothers being martyrish saps like we do.

[ScampiFriesRuleOK]

LaQueen
I have been to Dublin at Xmas...one of the wildest weekends of my life
Failed to see many babies out and about in Temple Bar

With each of your posts on this thread I fall a leedle bit more in love with you .

[PessaryPam]

I was in Dublin a couple of weeks ago and there were no babies in the restaurants after 7ish. I would hazard a guess that the several places Mathanxiety has lived after Dublin are in the US because if it was in the UK her name would be Mathsanxiety.

So basically we have an American of Irish extraction with a chip on her shoulder about the British. Who would have thunk it?

[PickledInAPearTree]

[yellowsubmarine53]

Yes,piglet, I'm very aware that everyone is not me.

And I agree that statements like 'the needs of many outweigh those of the few' are making a mountain out of the proverbial. We don't know the needs of many, just those of the OP and her friend.

Might I suggest that a couple of hours in a restaurant aren't particularly worth this much angst about?

[Janeatthebarre]

Oh and PMSL that Dublin is full of Mums and babies having quiet dinners. This Friday in Dublin will be a riot.



Janey, who said that Wordfactory

I live in Dublin and while some local restaurants can be a bit like a creche at about 6 o clock in the evening I can assure you that beyond that time the number of children in restaurants is very few and Irish people get just as pissed off as British people about kids running around, crying or making loads of noise when they're trying to enjoy a meal out in the evening.

[PickledInAPearTree]

I won't be having a Christmas night out this year either!

Poor poor me !

Will no one think of the pickle? I want a lift , I want someone to play with my baby in the corner and change his nappy like Houdini at the table.

Thanking you.

[Janeatthebarre]

Nowhere else would anyone be so forthright about her fears about babies, what they do to your identity (see posts from the OP about people who use Mummy in their usernames), how they 'ruin' the great British Christmas pissup (a very British thing) and in fact any other 'adults only' event among friends (again another very British concept ime). And there is also the feeling that when a baby is out it is an attention hog and that people will be required to gush and coo at it -- contrary to how casually the presence of babies is dealt with elsewhere. [QUOTE]

I'm from Dublin as well Mathanxiety and I wouldn't see any of the above as being particularly 'British'. Most people I know here in Ireland would be quite taken aback if someone brought a six month old baby along to a Christmas night out in a restaurant at 8 o'clock in the evening. And they would be deeply unimpressed if the same person had the cheek to demand that someone drive them and confine themselves to one drink (particularly as most people wouldn't even risk one drink when driving around Christmas time.)
This mother sounds precious in the extreme. No matter how much people love babies, there are some places and events where they are just not wanted. Parents who don't get this are a complete PITA.

[PickledInAPearTree]

I've never seen a baby out in the uk on Black Friday.

I took ds to pizza express on Saturday and by 7.30 it was very noisy and he began to channel the dark side and I was happy to leave.

Missing one night out isnt a huge deal she is a grown woman not a little child missing a birthday party.

We've all had to do it.

Some grips need to be got here seriously.