Ban on pork products in Kindergarten

[ethelmeaker]

We have been asked by the parents council at my son's Kindergarten not to bring pork products in as part of the breakfast buffet (where once a week parents bring in various types of food to be served as a buffet) The Kindergarten is in Frankfurt and is a state Kindergarten, so I don't think this is a legitimate request. The e-mail that we received stated that "as some children don't eat pork for various reasons we would like to ask parents not to bring pork products anymore."
The only reason I can think of is to do with religion and in a state Kindergarten religion has no place as far as I am concerned. Just wondered if anyone else has any thoughts on this.

I consider myself to be inclusive, when I have a party for small children I do make sure there are a lot of vegetarian options (several friends are, either for religious or other reasons). I do, however, always have sausage rolls and other treats which the other children expect to see at a party.

Now, I know a party is a different animal. I do think, though, that part of the process of attending school is to integrate children into society, outside the bounds of the family unit they've always known. Okay, perhaps 3-4 year olds won't know or understand the different foods (though all of the children I know who are know that they can only eat halal meat etc and avoid foods accordingly) but I'd think this could be a teaching exercise. The OP has already said the lunches are pork-free, so the one shared breakfast a week could be something different. I liked the idea upthread about bringing in different things to experience.

As I said in my previous response, I suspect the parents of the pork-free children haven't even been consulted in the matter.

Prayers are one thing - at DHs school some kids did miss out games on Fridays. That was something they had to, do rather than something they could work around. When was the last time anyone had a real leather football and what does that have to do with it? We haven't had any children at school fasting during Ramadan (and I don't know any who do) but my friend came to the PTA meeting where there was coffee and cakes. She could have not come but wanted to. She even made jokes about it. My BIL fasts and still comes over at meal times and insists we don't not eat around him. He feeds his daughter and cooks. He goes to work, has lunch and breakfast meetings where people, shock of shocks, eat bacon sandwiches.

I know enough people in these situations who don't ask for things to be changed for them - or want people to ask for it on their behalf. My friend says, if she wanted he son to go to an Arab school, there are enough in London to choose from. Pork really isn't an issue to her, even though she doesn't eat it.

I do suspect there is a lot of racism shrouded in the clothes of reason on this thread.

If that was aimed at me... Then it's a pile of crap.

Suspect all you like. I grew up in a multicultural city where my racial background was not the majority, in schools filled with children of various religions. I've lived the last 10 years as an expat in several countries, perhaps I am just used to being in situations where people of different backgrounds have had to find a common ground. I've yet to find someone pushing for non-halal meat to be excluded, or pork to be excluded, for the sake of their children. It is always some well-meaning person who thinks it needs to be done for the sake of inclusiveness.

Yup. We're in London and where we are is very multicultural and I am in the minority. My husband managed to go through the whole english school system without being menaced by pork. He had friends who were Jewish, Arab, European, American, Aussies... They all managed to eat, go to assembly, Christmas services... without any issue, and no one felt excluded.

I was brought up and have lived outside my country of origin for longer than I have lived in it. I spent several years as the only child of my culture and ethnicity at one school; a year at a strict Muslim school; a few years at international schools around the world. If I were racist, I would be a very lonely lady indeed.

I appreciate that my unconventional upbringing has given me huge advantages and one if them is tolerance. If anyone I grew up with had demanded the removal or addition of Rastatafarian, Catholic, Hindu, German, or American food from a feast in which they were a minority, never mind a truly international and multicultural gathering, we would have been very surprised. As we were all friends and school or workmates, there would have been no need to point out what cultural imperialism that would have been.

As it was, our parents taught us to live and let live, show respect fit the culture and traditions of our host country and to be aware that there are bigots abd ignorant people of every creed.

The only vaguely racist remark I saw on this thread I asked to be clarified; is that the one to which you refer or am I missing something else? So far, I've seen reasoned debate and sense.

*respect FOR

Unreasonable demand IMO.

If the food is clearly identified as pork then those who don't like it can avoid.

Silver - you should work for the UN! Were you diplomatic or military?

my son attends a kindergarten in Frankfurt run by the protestant church. There is no pork on the menu, but there are pork sausages at the summer bbq (and beef ones).

I questioned the same comment Silver did but that poster has decided not to clarify, unfortunately.

When I bring food for a shared event, I always do my best to make sure that it is something that everyone can eat. Sometimes this can mean no meat, eggs, nuts or milk products. I would far rather go to a bit of extra effort than spend what s supposed to be an enjoyable social occasion watching a toddler get upset/be restrained because he can't eat what his friends are eating. I've spent too many specia occasion meals eating a bowl of tinned fruit salad while watching everyone else scoffing chocolate gateau to want to put anyone else in that position.

'OP, can you think of any reasons, historical maybe, why the Germans might decide to be particularly sensitive to the needs of minorities? Hmm?'

Is the post you mean? I don't think it's racist at all.

The spectre of Nazism hangs over Germany like a black cloud. I think what the poster means is that there are lots of Germans who are anxious to demonstrate that Germany is now a country that welcomes minorities and is sensitive to their cultural requirements.

I have a friend who is coeliac. When she comes to dinner, I ensure the whole meal is gluten free, and have done this for groups of up to 12. However, if it were a larger group you have to accept that you can't ensure all the food is suitable for everyone, and if you aren't someone who can eat everything, you realise you have to avoid some of the foods on offer, especially if it's bring and share.

Having spent a summer holiday in Germany this year with an 11 year old vegetarian, I think OP should accept the ban on pork for the bring and share breakfast and concentrate on providing something vegetarian, as this minority seems woefully undercatered for in Germany (certainly in the part of the country we were, anyway).

I've been veggie for donkeys' years and have managed - almost - to eat ok abroad. Funnily enough, the very worst food was in northern Italy. It's my choice but I just get in with it. It's nothing like being coeliac though (like a friend of mine and a friends late brother), so no comparison whatsoever with health issues.

The only 'veggie' I know who does kick up a fuss about restaurant menu choice is one who eats fish and has no problems with non veggie stock or cheese.

The point I was making with the coeliac reference was that for a smaller group it is possible and preferably to provide food that everyone will eat. With a larger group, you have to accept compromises all round.

Oh I get that - my friend gets really ill if he eats anything he shouldn't. It's easy enough if its a few people for dinner but a buffet for 20 would be tricky.

A friend has in-laws who have a very restricted diet on religious grounds - Jains - she had a nightmare trying to organise a buffet without onions, potatoes, garlic...

Frontpaw - your friend would be best organising a desserts only buffet. We sometimes have those at work.

She had to do the whole shooting match (mums birthday - who isn't Jain) and was not happy about the 'no booze' either. The inlaws refused to come if the buffet wasn't to their specifications.

I am just always a bit suspicious when people suddenly start saying they can't possibly survive without a particular thing when asked to do without it for a very short time for the convenience or comfort of or out of courtesy to a minority group.

Seeker, so when someone has an opinion as to why they don't think it is necessary to completely exclude a product, and the reasons for that, and to make suggestions for how all parties can happily be accommodated, you shout racism?! Well that's a sensible and mature approach to take to a discussion.

I feel suspicious when people intimate it really would upset their entire world to see someone else eating a sausage roll!

It's a bit like the thread with the footstamping 9 year old who won't sit at the Christmas table unless there's a free range turkey (she's veggie).

On the other hand, I suspect, as has been said, that the supposedly affronted group have nothing to do with this request and it's a well meaning school person trying to cover all bases.

Frontpaw neither, they were in education and wanted to travel. Pros and cons in retrospect. My best friend lived in the same apartment until she got married - we fantasise about swapping lives!

Squoosh yes, you are right, it's at the forefront of all the national consciousness. Whenever I make a new German friend, at some point we have That Conversation. It's often quite upsetting which is why I questioned the post. I was possibly over-sensitive leaping on it, but if anyone is aware of the need to respect the cultural sensitivities of a minority, it is the German friends I know. Of course not all Germans are tolerant, and nor are all immigrants. But in my experience, we can only really influence and debate with our friends and I am lucky that I've had the chance to personally know a great many cultures in my years.

Anyway, that poster has yet to clarify so I am surmising.

And now I must go to the launch of a gluten-free cake range and have a Difficult Conversation with DP in the car about his use of the phrase 'freaky rabbit cake.'

Tolerance, as I pontificated earlier, begins at home...

I didn't shout racism. I made a mild suggestion that there might be racism present.