Ban on pork products in Kindergarten

[ethelmeaker]

We have been asked by the parents council at my son's Kindergarten not to bring pork products in as part of the breakfast buffet (where once a week parents bring in various types of food to be served as a buffet) The Kindergarten is in Frankfurt and is a state Kindergarten, so I don't think this is a legitimate request. The e-mail that we received stated that "as some children don't eat pork for various reasons we would like to ask parents not to bring pork products anymore."
The only reason I can think of is to do with religion and in a state Kindergarten religion has no place as far as I am concerned. Just wondered if anyone else has any thoughts on this.

[HalloweenNameChange]

i refuse to believe it's as little as 67 pounds a year blu

[Blu]

HalloweenNC Maybe it has gone down since the ban in Kita?

The link beow explains that 67 pounds of sausages is the equivalent weigt of a 9 year old boy.

There are some splendid gentlemen enjoying a typical german breakfast here

[tulipgrower]

Today's communal kindergarten breakfast offering in my part of Germany was bread with a choice of either salami, liverwurst, ham or cheese, so 3x pork, and the cheese was probably made with animal rennet too. (No sugary stuff allowed, because it's unhealthy. )

At the last kindergarten birthday breakfast I attended, in addition to the usual stuff there was also meatballs, sticks with cubes of veg and either salami or another kind of sausage on them and melon slices (without prosciutto ).

I guess in Germany they train them early to be hardcore pork eaters.

(Although sometimes the kids have muesli for breakfast, morning and afternoon is always fruit and veg snacks and every week has at least 1 or 2 vegetarian lunches.)

[Blu]

OP, do you think that this suggestion MIGHT be health led? Rather like the lunch box ban on crisps and cakes that we all rail against here?

[lovebunny]

pork's banned in my house so it wouldn't be a problem for me.

[E320]

Well I think it is a little silly of the Kindergarten, considering the normal breakfast food on offer in Frankfurt hotels, but you still have muesli, Broetchen, butter, jam, cheese, eggs, fruit salad or even smoked salmon, don't you?
My German toyboy says that breakfast has to be sweet and really laughs at me, if I tell him I have had a boiled egg and some form of fish.
Of course I forgot that disgusting stuff, Nutella. What about offering Marmite (just to put everyone off) or porridge?

[SilverBaubles33]

Do Germans usually eat pork products for breakfast? How odd.

Yes. Why is a different culture's choice of trafitional food seen as 'odd'? Perhaps you have not travelled much in Europe, but yes, there are lots of pork 'products' on offer for breakfast in Germany, along with cheese and eggs, bread rolls and, best of all cake! Same in Holland and Belgium.


OP, can you think of any reasons, historical maybe, why the Germans might decide to be particularly sensitive to the needs of minorities? Hmm?

I'm Jewish, and have lived and travelled extensively in Germany, among many other countries all over the world. Most Germans if my acquaintance would feel extremely uncomfortable if not hurt by such a statement. Did you mean this to be an offensive comment? Apologies if not, but I felt you were making an unpleasant reference to Nazi atrocities in WW2. Is that the case?

Finally, tolerance is a two-way street. I sometimes wonder if that is always the case on threads such as these.

It's an interesting debate, and one that is happening all over Europe, but crying 'intolerance' and implying anti Islam or anti Semetism when the debate begins is, in my opinion unhelpful and facile. These ate sensitive and com

[SilverBaubles33]

Sorry, posted too early!

These are sensitive and complicated issues and I think all those involved need to focus on open, continuous dialogue, even when the debate becomes uncomfortable.

[Montybojangles]

www.pcrm.org/media/blog/may2011/enough-is-enough-processed-meat-cancer-link
Perhaps they are simply concerned for the health of your child?

[ConferencePear]

I think there is a problem of the intolerant foisting their foibles on the tolerant. I won't eat halal meat, but I don't expect that others won't eat it in my presence.

[squoosh]

I hardly think it's 'intolerant' that people don't eat pork for religious reasons.

[SilverBaubles33]

squoosh I totally agree. I do not eat it myself.

Nor do I think it is intolerant to serve pork in a Frankfurt kindergarten where the majority of parents would like it to remain on the menu. .

There have been some creative and practical suggestions upthread to ensure the children don't eat it accidentally.

[LynetteScavo]

Anyway, why do they even have a breakfast buffet once a week?

Is it a German thing?

[PoppyAmex]

Do Germans usually eat pork products for breakfast? How odd.

Do English people eat bacon for breakfast? Does bacon come from cows?

[MrsTerryPratchett]

It is just a fact that breakfast anywhere in the world is the weirdest meal to any other culture. Fish curry anyone?

[squoosh]

Breakfast cereal is just a modern con.

[joanbyers]

Germans eat pork for breakfast, lunch and dinner. For this reason it's not really reasonable unless it's a Muslim/Jewish school.

[sashh]

If it is for Jewish/muslim children then I think it is a bad idea. People who do eat pork will be well aware that sliced salami is pork but not that pork may be in bread or cake.

Children who are being brought up to not eat certain foods need to know what they are. Putting the ham on a seperate table or a coloured plate might be a better idea.

Saying to children they can eat everything on a table is more likley IMHO to have Jewish / Muslim / 7th day adventists / vegetarians eating things that they shouldn't.

[Frontpaw]

It is quite a thorny issue. Do we 'ban' all items which may offend or pose a health risk? On what basis - religion, health, lifestyle choice, diet, phobia... And where is the line drawn?

At nursery/schools, in the UK anyway, we do teach kids about religions, festivals, cultures, etc, so the children get an understanding of others' beliefs. A bring and share breakfast is a great idea to see who eats what - we have done this at school (for the whole nursery and school) and the kids really enjoy all the foods. No-one has ever asked for certain foods not to be brought (only nuts). The Saudi table sits happily next to the German one and noone has ever made a fuss about what is served.

A child brought up in a no-pork household will know from a young age that there are some things they dont eat for religious reasons. My friends little boy knew from very young that he wasnt to eat hotdogs as they just dont eat pork in his parents' country. No big deal and he would eat something else while his friends had hotdogs. Hopefully they are not taught that its because 'that meat is shitty and anyone who eats it is dirty'.

I don't know any muslim or jew (I have worked for jewish firms) who has made such a request (actually, we have served veggie canapes at functions to make sure noone drinks too much wine and picks up a prawn). In fact, we have been given booze gift vouchers by rather religious types in the family 'because we know you like wine and weren't sure what to choose'. I cook veggie or even halal for them when they visit because they are my guests, hell, I even cook meat for the carnivores.

They would be mortified if someone was to push a 'no pork' on 'their' behalf as it would be seen as rude and disrespectful. Their culture is all about being diplomatic (there is a specific word that I can't translate but it means giving the best to your guests with a genuine great big smile) and treating others with respect (would never say 'pork is dirty'). I suppose not every culture/religion/family is the same but that is my own experience.

I also agree with the idea that pork products slips into all sorts of items that you wouldnt expect! Cake and sweets for starters.

[seeker]

"It is quite a thorny issue. Do we 'ban' all items which may offend or pose a health risk? On what basis - religion, health, lifestyle choice, diet, phobia... And where is the line drawn? "

It's quite a stretch from a kindergarten trying to ensure that a shared buffet breakfast once a week is ok for all the children to eat without asking first to mass banning!

[ZZZenAgain]

"Anyway, why do they even have a breakfast buffet once a week? Is it a German thing?"

Yes, Lynette I think it is common practice. My dd was in 3 different German kindergartens (as a result of our moving about) and we had this situation in all 3. Dc seem to like it. Usually they take their breakfast individually and just open their boxes and eat together around a table. One day a week you bring things which are served on plates laid up and down the table and the children can take what they choose. As I said below, the carers sit and eat with the children in this small group. It is quite cosy I think and the food laid out attractively on plates with baskets of rolls is just a different feel to eating out of a plastic lunchbox.

What I encountered too was that on the day your dc has his/her birthday, you bring breakfast for the whole group which will include sweet treats, such as a cake or muffins, little bags of sweets (probably chewy bears with gelatine in them come to think of it) etc as well as some regular breakfast. They might not have the cake till the afternoon though. So I don't think it is a health issue here in that the kindergarten has decided pork is an unhealthy option, they are fine with the sweet stuff, it will be to do with different dietary requirements of some of the dc.

[Frontpaw]

It is a matter of line drawing through. We have had Hindus at school and beef was served, eggs where there are children with egg allergies and bananas where one small child would go into meltdown is he even smelled one. One mum was very very health conscious - lots of health problems in the family - and kept a very strict food diet for her and the kids.

[seeker]

Well, if there was a child that had allergies, I would certainly expect a buffet breakfast not to contain the allergens. And I would also expect there to be nothing specifically forbidden by any of the faiths represented among the children.

That seems like q good place to draw the line, don't you think?

[Frontpaw]

I don't know, H says that bans are a load of 'nonsense', and he has a better insight than me. My Hindu friend said that it didn't bother him that no one ever thought to ask for no beef in the sandwiches or lunches served at school.

[dreamingofsun]

if you extend the argument though that you shouldn't do things that are bad for other faiths, surely this shouldn't just be restricted to food? So, for exampel, at the school i volunteered at there was a child who missed fridays sometimes because he had to go to prayer - surely then school should be cancelled on a friday and lessons run on a sat? presumably leather footballs are out? no food at all during ramadam?