Ban on pork products in Kindergarten

[ethelmeaker]

We have been asked by the parents council at my son's Kindergarten not to bring pork products in as part of the breakfast buffet (where once a week parents bring in various types of food to be served as a buffet) The Kindergarten is in Frankfurt and is a state Kindergarten, so I don't think this is a legitimate request. The e-mail that we received stated that "as some children don't eat pork for various reasons we would like to ask parents not to bring pork products anymore."
The only reason I can think of is to do with religion and in a state Kindergarten religion has no place as far as I am concerned. Just wondered if anyone else has any thoughts on this.

[Frontpaw]

If its just the sharing then they ought to consider all dietary resrtictions too. That would be a monumental pita. All or nothing.

[squoosh]

Little kids will pick up anything and give it a nibble, I presume the parents of Jewish and Muslim children would prefer to prevent any accidental pork chomping incidents. It would be different if it was a secondary school where Muslim and Jewish kids could see for themselves all the foodstuffs on offer and just ignore the pork based snacks.

[marchwillsoonbehere]

But surely this comes down to choice. If you choose not to give your child pork you cannot expect that all others should also not be able to eat pork.

Yes choice is important for sure but consideration for others should get a look in too. Nobody, as far as I can tell, is being banned from eating pork at any other time, it's just that they are trying to make a communal breakfast entirely inclusive. What's wrong with that?


What Oatybeatie said is so wise I make no aplogy for shamelessly repeating it here:

the ogre of religion in a state context won't have cheated you of anything at all except the dubious pleasure of giving gifts strictly on your own terms.

[Frontpaw]

I though that German food was pretty pork-heavy anyway.

[ethelmeaker]

None of the parents here are happy with it and for me that speaks volumes. In "considering" the minority the choices of the majority are restricted.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Frontpaw DD would agree. I think it would be worse in France, though. Her horse obsession is even worse than her dog obsession.

I just don't understand why anyone gets their knickers in a twist about this. Unless they have an issue with Jewish and Muslim people. I have an issue with compulsory worship in British schools. No pork in a kindergarden buffet = could not give less of a toss.

[Frontpaw]

Are there Jewish or Muslim kids there though? As I've said, I have only known Muslim parents to be embarrassed when pork gets banned on their behalf. However, I used to go to a kids club in the local synagogue's basement. Nannies would pop a ham and cheese sandwich in front of their charges. I thought that was a little .

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Oh and ethel there is a principle that the needs of the minority should be protected, even when that interferes with the wants of the majority. It is to stop certain acts that happen in certain countries sometimes I'm trying to avoid invoking Godwin's Law.

[marchwillsoonbehere]

Agreed Mrs Pratchett. Just a rider....


I just don't understand why anyone gets their knickers in a twist about this. Unless they have an issue with Jewish and Muslim people.

And if they DO have an issue with Jewish or Muslim people (or any other specific ethnic group) why the frig would you listen to them anyway?

[Frontpaw]

DS gets annoyed when I tell him That I have eaten horse quite a few times, and fluffy bunnies too!

DH was born Muslim and managed to survive the English school system before things like pork were banned! His mum is very 'when in Rome, get on with it'.

[ethelmeaker]

Hi Frontpaw, yes German food is pretty pork heavy and having looked at some of the cooked meats on iffer here, I would rather give my son slices of proper pork or ham than a lot of the "poultry" products on the shelves. I respect the German culture and often have to accept differences that I don't necessarily agree with but pork is an intrinsic part of the German culture.

[Frontpaw]

So I have an issue with the pork ban but married to a Muslim. Aren't I confused then?!

[ljny]

I'm usually the first to object to religion in state schools - but even I don't see the problem here. The school isn't telling them to pray, it's not indoctrinating any religion, it's not making some kids feel different.

They're simply saying, some kids don't eat pork - and these kids are too little to read labels - surely the great German culture has breakfast traditions without pork?

Reminds me - many moons ago - my primary school had fish on Fridays, because some of the kids were Catholic. When I asked, was simply told the Catholic kids didn't eat meat on Fridays. No biggie. Actually a bit of an eye-opener for a 6-year-old. Can't see the problem here.

[squoosh]

Wow ethel you must really love pork!

Are there no other foods you could bring? It's hardly surprising that some Germans are going out of their way to accomodate the needs of minorities now is it?

[squoosh]

pork is an intrinsic part of the German culture

It's hardly an affront to German culture to not chow down on pig meat on from time to time..

[MrsTerryPratchett]

march I would understand why they had an issue then and respect their honesty more than the PA, "I'm not a racist but" crap that gets pulled. I most certainly wouldn't listen to them.

[Jins]

Why would you want to spend good money on something that isn't going to be shared by everyone?

If I'm providing food for a group of children I tend to go down the vegetarian route in any case. Pork excludes vegetarians as well as those with religious restrictions.

Perhaps they've asked you all to stop because they end up with too much left over at the end and too many hungry children

[marchwillsoonbehere]

Excellent point Mrs Pratchett

[Frontpaw]

I would probably send sweet buns anyway. Much nicer than heavy meaty stuff for breakfast. I'd probably get told off for sending sugar.

[marchwillsoonbehere]

pork is an intrinsic part of the German culture.

Intrinsic maybe, compulsorily eaten at every meal not so much!

[TheUKGrinchImGluhweinkeller]

ethel does religion really not come into it at a state Kindergarten? We are in Bavaria, so I realise it is quite probably utterly different, but Catholicism runs right through everything the state Kindergarten does here - I can only wish they gave other religions a mention too, as I'm not too thrilled with my kids being taught Catholic/ Christian lore as absolute and unquestioned truth in a theoretically non faith setting ... but it comes with living in Bavaria.

We are asked not to bring oranges or strawberries in if we volunteer to provide the fruit as one child has an allergy - no uproar... one meal a week without pork will not kill even a German child, I don't personally see the problem - its not so restrictive a request that it makes it hard to find other options :o

[NulliusInBlurba]

"I just don't understand why anyone gets their knickers in a twist about this. Unless they have an issue with Jewish and Muslim people."
Unfortunately that applies to a great number of people in Germany, still. Society is underpinned by a deep-seated dislike of Muslim cultures, which are portrayed as somehow less worthwhile than all that is ethnically German. It's an almost aggressive racial hatred which I only notice in the UK when the talk is of Gypsy and Taveller communities.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Agreed, Nullius, it was my subtle way of suggesting that people might be kidding themselves about their motivation to be upset about this. I have also heard some casual Antisemitism from a couple of Germans. Shocked me to my core, I have to say.

[deckthehouse]

I wouldn't have a problem with this. Processed pork is not very healthy anyway. But I wonder how serious it is for Muslims if their child accidentally eats pork? I was very nervous when I had some Muslim friend over for dinner.

[Frontpaw]

I'll tell DH then. He must be anti-Muslim, oh hang on...