To have zero sympathy with this mother who lost her baby

[ReallyTired]

Allowing someone to circumcise a baby with a pair of sissors at home is child abuse.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20518046

Surely the mother could have taken the child to A and E if it was bleeding so much.

I think that both women deserve to go to jail for child cruety and manslaughter.

It needs to be made a criminal offence for someone to carry out a circumcism who isn't a doctor. I also feel that circumcisms need to be carried out in a hospital enviromnent with proper pain relief and emergency facilties. Anything else is child abuse.

It is a point less waste of life what happened to this little baby.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

primafacie - the OP isn't racist. Lacking in empathy yes,racist,no.

[DinosaursOnAnAdventCalender]

It's not racist to think something is barbaric, cruel and wrong. It's not a racial issue.

[lola88]

any mother in the world who watches there baby bleed to death and does nothing gets no sympathy from me she should have done something end of story.

[GrimmaTheNome]

lola - they took the baby to A&E when they realised - the poor mite was wearing a nappy and it just doesn't take much blood loss to kill a baby.

I would blame the 'nurse' for not giving them proper aftercare instruction (well, and having done it in the first place)

[Spero]

Objecting to circumcision is not racist. That is silly. All races and colours circumcise. Isn't it 80% of white US males? I think it is stupid and abhorrent in and of itself. To say that makes me racist is a non sequitur.

[MamaMumra]

I thought the OP was the one who first mentioned Muslims and blacks btw.

[fromparistoberlin]

what a horrible thread

yabu, some thoughts are best not aired

[RooneyMara]

There was a case where a little baby died of blood loss, after circumcision, linked from here about a year ago maybe. Very, very sad indeed.

In that case it was done at a hospital but still, something went very wrong, it took a few days, for him to die - his little body shut down bit by bit.

It was a dreadful, absolutely dreadful waste of life. It just goes to show how dangerous this procedure can be even when done by supposedly qualified professionals, and even when the parents DO notice blood loss and do report it.

I am thoroughly against circumcision, personally, though I can see that there is some pressure in some families to have it done and if it is donewith anaesthetic and safely, then I can think of worse things.

But generally no, it's something I am fairly strongly against even in medical circumstances - we were almost referred for ds1 to be 'done' when he was 3 or 4, purely because his willy was a bit sore. A different GP told us to stop using bubble bath and it was fine immediately. Not that I would EVER have let it be done, unless his penis was actually falling off.

[mathanxiety]

YABU to be so heartless.

I agree with MrsDeVere's comments wrt what immigrants may expect from the medical world in Britain. A lot of British people who are used to the NHS post here on MN with questions about American healthcare delivery in teh living overseas section, and are shocked about cost, necessity for comprehensive insurance, etc. They post about Irish healthcare delivery for that matter. The ins and outs of costs, what is covered and available, etc., are not common knowledge and people have expectations that they carry with them. They might also have a view of circumcision as a religious or cultural operation that would not necessarily belong in a hospital or surgery setting, just as people get ears pierced for themselves or their children in places other than a medical setting.

And to say people come to Britain for the NHS comes across as a bit BNPish imo so YABU on that score too.

YABU for trivialising real child abuse with your references to Baby P, and comparisons of male circumcision to FGM also trivialise FGM.

[Spero]

I think she said 'being black or Muslim does not make you stupid'. Which seems to be a statement of fact. Unless referring to anyone's race or religion in any context whatsoever is now sufficient to make you racist. Which I am seriously wondering might be true for some.

[PropertyNightmare]

Yanbu. If you are happy to allow your baby to be mutilated then be prepared for the fact that mutilation is detrimental to your baby's well being. It's not rocket science.

[mathanxiety]

TheBody -- men discuss circumcision and it seems practical issues are uppermost in their minds. They are not getting their knickers in a twist about mutilation, and seem to focus pretty much exclusively on functionality.

[insancerre]

how sad
sad that the baby died
sad that this practice is still going on
and very sad that some people think the parents deserve no sympathy

[waltermittymistletoe]

Crescentmoon why are you presuming that by "barbarian" people mean "barbarian because they are muslims".

Nobody said that. Again, you're making this a race issue when it wasn't intended as such.

You talk about it being common in North America as if North America is the holy grail of civilisation! I don't care where they do it, I don't like it.

[CindySherman]

They are obviously incredibly ignorant people; black, white, green or blue.
Babies die from "surgical" circumcsision. It is not talked about and kept hidden. I feel it is a very high-risk, barbaric practice and people should be educated.

I do have sympathy for the parents, absolutely.

[waltermittymistletoe]

I doubt very very much that the words barbaric would have been used in this thread had this been a white christian family

You have no reason to think this.

[Molehillmountain]

Astonishing. To have no sympathy with a mother who has lost their child is just beyond me. I say lost-she didn't set our to kill or actually to, in her or her religion's view, to harm him. The debate over whether circumcision is right or not is separate from this. I feel for her.

[Svrider]

3 children a month admitted to Manchester hospital due to botched circumsion
Ffs what is wrong with these people
Op yanbu