To have zero sympathy with this mother who lost her baby

[ReallyTired]

Allowing someone to circumcise a baby with a pair of sissors at home is child abuse.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20518046

Surely the mother could have taken the child to A and E if it was bleeding so much.

I think that both women deserve to go to jail for child cruety and manslaughter.

It needs to be made a criminal offence for someone to carry out a circumcism who isn't a doctor. I also feel that circumcisms need to be carried out in a hospital enviromnent with proper pain relief and emergency facilties. Anything else is child abuse.

It is a point less waste of life what happened to this little baby.

[McChristmasPants2012]

it seems like she paid a nurse to do the job who said

Adrian Darbishire QC, prosecuting, asked Ms Attiko (mother): "Did she say anything about possible complications, things that could go wrong? "No," she said.

Op i wish you put sensitive in the title as this may upset many people

[YankTeeDoodleDanTee]

"Serves her right"?!?! Seriously?

The woman just lost her baby. Do you think she set out to have the child die? No, she set out to do what she thought was right in regards to her baby, perhaps due to her religion or just cultural beliefs.

No one 'deserves' to have their baby die. Ever.

[ErikNorseman]

Circumcision is not available on the NHS for cultural reasons, but doesn't cost much more than £100 in a proper clinic.
I feel sympathy for the parents. They were ignorant. Circumcision is completely normal and everyday in many cultures, and anaesthesia is also not widely used in all countries. From their pov they weren't doing anything wrong, they had no reason not to trust the nurse. It's terribly sad.

[ErikNorseman]

And may I add that both the boy's parents were present and involved, so why you are focussing on the mother as culpable is unclear to me.

[LtEveDallas]

I feel sympathy for the parents, losing a child is horrific no matter what the circumstances. The guilt they must be feeling doesn't bear thinking about.

I do think they should be charged though. The nurse for doing the procedure, and the parents for not taking the boy to hospital when something was obviously wrong.

If this practice is to remain then it should be strictly regulated and only performed at specialised clinics. There is no excuse for going 'back street'. I don't accept that they didn't know - they have been in this country long enough to find out.

I would hope that charging them may spotlight this practice and ensure that other families who may be considering going outside the medical services think again.

[HecatePropylaea]

Oh my god, that's horrific. That poor baby.

And I do have sympathy for the mother too (and father. I know you didn't mention the father, but I am sure you equally condemn him and think he too should go to jail) . A nurse carried out this procedure. A nurse. The parents no doubt truly felt they were dealing with a medical professional. The nurse didn't tell them of any possible complications. People do think this is a minor thing. Just a bit of skin

Scissors and no anaesthetic. That makes me want to cry. That poor baby. He must have been in agony.

It is awful. and I personally am very much against circumcision (long personal story involving many, many rows with my husband and threats to have him deported if he allows one hand to be laid on our sons! Culture be damned. If you want to cut off a bit of someone's body in the name of your culture/god - make it a bit of your own. Not someone who's got no choice or even understands what's happening!) if it's not for medical reasons, but the parents didn't deserve this. They sought out a nurse. That means they thought they were putting it in the hands of a professional. Their mistake was in thinking that they were dealing with someone medically competent.

There must have been an awful lot of blood though. I am sure the parents wish they had realised that it was too much blood to lose and taken that baby to the hospital. I don't think they deserved this.

I do think that people need to be made aware of the dangers of doing this to your baby though. People need to understand the risks.

[Sirzy]

I am glad you mentioned about it being both parents. Actually in some cultures the mother probably gets very little say in such things.

It's a tragic thing and quite sad in this day and age that people can be so ignorant of the risks :(

[thebody]

When will culture and religion again be the excuse for the torture( yes the baby would have experienced agonising pain) of usually women and children.

I weep for our world I really do.

[MrsMushroom]

To some people 100 is a LOT pixel

[ErikNorseman]

Mrsmushroom private clinics in the uk will circumcise a baby for around £100, that includes anaesthetic and aftercare. The point is that they didn't use the nurse to save money it seems.

[quirrelquarrel]

You must be REALLY TIRED because that would explain the loopiness.

The mother has lost a child. Ffs. Makes me wonder what else you have "zero sympathy" for, it's a slippery slope.

[higgle]

Whilst I feel very sorry for the baby and that his mother is suffering this loss the fact of the matter is that no cultural reasons can justify cruelty of this kind. It makes me very sad when we all quite rightly condemn the "culture" of the 1970's when sexual abuse of teenage girls was viewed by some as acceptable and then seek to justify mutilation of children by long term residents of this country on the basis of "ignorance" and "cultural differences"

[Muffintop101]

There wasn't an awful lot of blood, Hecate. There was a small amount, relatively-speaking, but it only takes a small amount for a baby to bleed to death. He did so over 24 hours and the parents called an ambulance as soon as they realised something was wrong. He died on arrival at hospital, apparently.

So I have every sympathy with the parents. I also feel sympathy with the nurse who is being prosecuted for gross negligence manslaughter, not murder. Whether she was grossly negligent will be a matter for the jury after hearing the evidence, but it seems to me, having been recommended to the family by other members of the Nigerian Christian community, she'd done this procedure before and there had been no problems. The procedure is often done in this manner in many cultures at around 8 days old and without anaesthetic.

And OP, YABVU and reactionary.

[thebody]

So sympathy for both parents and the nurse. Baby not mentioned.

Culture is no excuse for cruelty, this was a cruel act as all 3 of the adults present would know that to cut skin off of a human being with a scissors would be agony. Would any of those 3 have laid back and allowed someone to do this to them? Of course not.

Religion is no excuse for barbaric acts, and all religions are guilty of some.

Messages need to be sent out that such barbarism and cruelty is not acceptable here, it's abuse pure and simple.

No understanding or excusing please as that's an insult to the little life lost here.

[thebody]

Amend barbarism and cruelty is not acceptable anywhere...

[OpheliaPayneAgain]

So this 'nurse' - was she actually qualified or just had status in that community? - has been palming £100 a throw for years doing private operations? Nice little earner.

[Jossysgiants]

monsterchild Being a parent is terrifying
This.

We all make mistakes as parents -some big, some small. I have EVERY sympathy for these parents who have made a catastrophic one. Yes, most sympathy must be for this little baby whose life has been cut short. But there isn't a finite amount of available sympathy. Have a little compassion. YABU.

[thebody]

The day an adult lies down and asks a 'nurse' to circumcise them in their home without anaesthetic is the day I won't think these 3 adults are guilty if barbarous cruelty.

Cultural mutulation is practised on small people who cannot defend themselves.

Amazing that!

[Morloth]

My sympathy is with the poor little baby who bled to death because the stupid fucking adults in his life thought he wasn't perfect as he was.

He would have died in agony, a tiny little baby.

Any god who could possibly call for such a thing is evil and anyone who would arrange/carry out such an act is also evil.

[valiumredhead]

Zero sympathy? I have nothing but sympathy for anyone whose baby has died.

[anewyear]

But why do they do it in the first place, thats what I dont understand.
I mean I know it takes place, but why?
Is it a religion thing?

[ClaireMarathonFeeder]

I wonder though, is circumvision considered a medical procedure? Is a nurse authorised to perform it? Does anyone know the legalities?

I also have sympathy for the parents, they probably feel devastated now if they have realised that this could have easily been prevented. And while I am totally against circumncision (sp?) like mrsdevere said it's not easy to go against thousands of years of conditioning if that is the "norm" for you.