To think that my dh should have married a bloody lap dancer if he loves them that much......

[plim]

So, dh took his best mate on a 'belated stag do' this weekend - they didn't go last year when he actually got married as his fiancé was preggers.

we have just bought house, are skint, have just taken out a loan, I'm on maternity leave with our 3rd child so money is tight. Dh booked a 4star hotel for the two of em, made a weekend of it, I eeeked it out of him that they went to a lap dancing club and had 'lots of dances' in a VIP room.....

Not so much disgruntled about the fact that they went to a lap dancing club although I think they are degrading and vile but hey if thats what floats their boat, but more annoyed that we are brassic until I go back to work in new year and they have just blown a small fortune on boobs n ass being waggled in their faces.........asked dh how could we afford 4 dances each etc and he stated that 'he did not have to explain himself to me'. To top it off he was so pissed on Sunday that I told him to go straight to his weekly abode ( he works down south 3 days a week) and he will now not be home till Friday.

Just all feels a bit selfish when we have 3 lil ones and things are tight but at the same time I do think everyone has the right to let their hair down etc....

[ChicMama25]

Ps my dh understands this

[AThingInYourLife]

I would not have married a man who had the habit of masturbating to photos or videos of women being abused and demeaned.

[plim]

Btw this has nothing to do with the dh, I'm just interested.

[garlicbaguette]

I used to be okay about porn and lapdancing. I'm not any more. I've joined the dealbreaker camp. Before I made my mind up completely, I went off and found out all the information I'd been trying not to think about - thought about it, considered what 'objectification' really means, and all of a sudden it seemed obvious.

MrsTP's fifth point is unarguable, imo. You would probably be unhappy to come home and find your best mate wriggling around, naked, on your partner's lap. I can't see how it's any difference when a stranger does it.

[Charbon]

It's an expectation for both of us in our relationship that neither of us is consumers of the sex industry (including porn), plim. My partner would be just as repulsed by my patronage of it as I would be by his. Then again it would be mightily strange if this happened given all our political activity and work in this area!

Even if you remove the compelling political arguments from the picture, point 5 in Terry Pratchett's post is extremely powerful. This sexual experience is not lessened by it being paid for in a club - it could just as easily have been a front room in a house. One of the problems with lap dancing clubs is that their existence has normalised punters paying for sexual entertainment and services and in an extraordinary feat of propoganda, a generation of intelligent people have accepted their existence and fallen for the lies the owners tell in order to keep their licences. If people really knew what goes on in a lot of clubs, I doubt that they'd normalise it quite so much.

[SomersetONeil]

"I am against my partner ogling at said bits whilst he is my partner. Its not that I don't trust him, I know he's hardly going to shag them, it's just disrespectful to me."

GhostShip, I really don't understand the inherent hypocrisy of your stance at all.

Why is it OK for you, as a Page 3 model to expose your naked breasts to women's boyfriends and husbands willy nilly, but it's not OK for your partner to look at other women's?

Either it's OK, or it's not. If you're not happy with your bloke looking, then how can you condone doing it? Who exactly is the naked women market, if not blokes; many of whom have partners?

Am I massively missing something here...?

[SomersetONeil]

...who is the 'naked women' market for?

[anklebitersmum]

Yup, Pratchett is 'on the money' for me.

I will not have porn of any description in my house-in exactly the same way as DH does not expect to come home and find me amusing myself while the milkman (or anyone else for that matter) prances around waggling his bits suggestively

We agreed some years ago that if something wasn't good for the gander then it certainly wasn't happening for the goose either-right down to certain nightclubs/pubs and acceptable times to roll home.

Besides, we have two daughters. They're someones daughter you know.

[SundaeGirl]

Plim, before you speak to your DH again do you think it would be worth finding out exactly how much he spent?

You mention further up the thread that DH is away for three days a week. If my DH had spent this kind of money in a blow out, I'd want to know if that attitude was also meaning a loosening of purse strings when I wasn't around.

[WilsonFrickett]

One of the problems with lap dancing clubs is that their existence has normalised punters paying for sexual entertainment and services and in an extraordinary feat of propoganda, a generation of intelligent people have accepted their existence

This ^^ I used to be a lot more laissez-faire about porn if I'm being honest, but this is so true. Even if you are sure that the piece of porn you're watching has not exploited anyone (and how can you be sure?), you can bet your bottom dollar that the next piece does. Soft porn and lapdancing clubs are the tip of the iceberg of an extremely dark and murky industry which demeans and degrades and exploits and abuses women (and men tbh) so I and DH don't participate in it at all. We've agreed this and it would definitely be a dealbreaker if DH was using porn too.

[fluffyraggies]

Morning OP.

Lap dancing clubs - The only time i'd let this go is if he was with a group of guys on a stag do and they all went in and he'd be left out if he didn't go in too. We've discussed this. I said i'd still be very upset though. He said that even in that situation (if he was still sober enough to think) he probably wouldn't bother going in anyway as from his past experiences he's found its seriously not worth the money ( he is a tight bugger ). I said i'd be unable to forgive a private dance.

Private dance - well, given the above it'd be a deal breaker probably. It would eat away at me even if i decided to try to forgive.

Porn - more complicated. IF he was watching it regularly by himself, IF he was replacing me with it in any way, IF he was spending money on it or lying about it ... if any of these things were happening i'd be very peed off. Very. As it is he tells me if there's porn being hoiked about that day on the lads phones at his work and we have a laugh/yuk about it. It's me that'll sometimes suggest a bit of porn when we're very drunk together.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Porn doesn't bother me in the slightest OP. Buf then not does lap dancing in and of itself.

[GhostShip]

Somerset one is physical, one isn't. Page 3 isn't personal. Thousands see it. A woman dancing on your lap and you handing her money is completely different.

[plim]

That's interesting because dh says he doesn't like porn particularly, I think they perhaps got very pissed and ended up in a lap dancing club. Checked bank balance and he spent around 280 quid but he does also have a creit card but doubt he used that.

[AnyFucker]

It seems your H prefers his sex industry consumerism in the flesh then ?

[SomersetONeil]

"Page 3 isn't personal. Thousands see it. A woman dancing on your lap and you handing her money is completely different."

OK.

[GhostShip]

Yes you sit on those hands because there's no point trying to argue with me, its my opinion.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

But it's still selling sex is it not Ghostship?

Different ends of the same business. Seems rather hypocritical to be okay with your contribution but not others.

[GhostShip]

I have no problem with selling sex, I don't think thats something Ive ever said is it? It's a womans prerogative if she wants to use her body in such a way.


My problem is a man with a partner who he's suppose to love, buying sex.

The lap dancer isn't the problem here, it's the husband.

[SomersetONeil]

I'm just loving the notion that they're 'completely different'.

Alligators and lemons are completely different. The only way Page 3 breasts and lap dancers are 'completely different' is if you need to justify why one is perfectly OK and one isn't.

I have to say, I now find your pro-Page 3 stance completely incredible (as in, has no credibility) now that we know you (of all people!) would not stand for your partner ogling other naked women. Dress it up any which way you need to, your stance is hypocritical.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

But Ghostship some women have a real issue with page 3 and think their husband shouldn't be ogling any other woman's breasts.

So...how is it different to lap dancing?

Neither bother me in the slightest. But they bother a great many women.

[GhostShip]

Alis - so? Your point is? They may have, they're entitled to have that opinion. If that's what they believe then their husbands shouldn't do it.

But it seems like you're trying to say I'm somewhat at fault here. So because I've posed nude, I should accept that my partner can have a lap dance? Should I also accept being cheated on somerset

If you want to group them together, It is neither mine or the lap dancers fault that their husbands want to look at another woman.

[GhostShip]

Just to reiterate - I don't see anything wrong with a single man doing those things. But a man who has a partner shouldn't. He should love and respect his wife, not look and pay another woman.


So how on earth am I being hypocritical? Oh but I forget, it's always the woman to blame in these situations

[SomersetONeil]

But you can't control who views what - there isn't a filter for single men and partnered men, is there?

You absolutely should not accept anything you don't want to accept - I very much agree with the issue you have with not wanting your partner to have a LD, etc. You're very much joining the dots incorrectly by saying 'so because I've posed nude, I should accept that my partner can have a lap dance'.

It IS hypocritical to put yourself out there to be viewed by all; single men and partnered men, but then to have a problem with your man doing just that. I don't see how you can't see that?!

Can you not understand why some women have an issue with Page 3?

Putting aside the wider impact on womankind/objectification, etc, etc (which is obviously where I think the bigger problem lies)... Can you not see that some women don't really like their partners looking at other women's naked breasts over their cereal or on the tube? Is it the same thing as an actual lapdance? No. But it's on the exact same continuum. To deny this makes you look, I'm sorry, but a bit head-in-the-sand silly.

You understand why you don't want your partner to go to a LDC and have a dance, but you refuse to see why another woman might not appreciate her partner ogling Page 3.

[AnyFucker]

To be fair, ghostship is saying she feels it is only acceptable for single men to be a consumer of the sex trade

Although what I fail to understand is what happens to a man once he is no longer single that changes him from a misogynistic arsehole and disrespectful objectifier of women into a paragon of partnered virtue ?

Is there a switch in his head somewhere ? That would be handy woundn't it, for all the women that find out there is no such fucking thing but not until they are in committed relationships (and dc in the mix) with their own personal disrespecter of women