to think if you do the fun stuff you should attend the duty stuff aswell.

[missmapp]

Ds1 goes to Beavers, it is a lovely group and they do lots of fun events, camp fires, night time walks, activity days, visits to lots of exciting places- these are always well attended. As it is Rememberance Sunday tomorrow , they have been asked to go to the Church Parade.

I wasn't sure of the time, so phoned a few other Mum's- all have said their ds does not want to go, so they won't be attending. Now Ds normally goes to football on a Sunday morning, but I have told him he needs to go to the service as it is part of being a Beaver. It saddens me that lots turn up to the fun things, but this will be a low turn out ( as it was last year-only 2my ds and 2 others)

So, AIBU ?

Have to confess that we failed to attend the civic ceremony at the local cenotaph this year.

We went to the Remembrance Day service in the church beforehand, and DS (14 months) started off fine, and then got more and more grumpy and screamy So we took him home straight after instead, as we figured no-one would appreciate a howling toddler being there in the crowd.

Turned the TV onto BBC1 for the Remembrance Sunday parade, and he fell asleep just in time for the minutes silence.....

two minutes silence that should have been

I missed one Remembrance Day myself. I was 12ish, and I fainted at 9.15 just before leaving the house. I had completely forgotten that. The only time i have ever fainted in my life. What a bizarre thing to remember c/o mn. . Everyone else went, but I got dropped off at poorly grandma's to watch it on tv, as they couldn't risk me collapsing again during the 2 mins silence. I was well miffed.

Two. I've missed two. I think it was Remembrance Day when dd2 was discharged from scbu at 5 weeks. All this baby stuff is trying my memory. we must have got through it somehow, as I distinctly remember going to post -service stuff with babies various... I think I've just blocked it out. The stress of hoping that the brownies don't start talking has obviously erased all memories of my own weeny toddlers etc!

YANBU.

Being as it is a quasi-fascist organization, the correct spirit is to follow orders and not ask questions.

Aw, nice try, but there are no orders.
That's kinda the point.

Have a wee pat on the back, anyway. Lovely to see all viewpoints, as ever.

Fellowship
IIRC the "proper" name for Softly is Bermudan Vespers. A schoolfriend of mine was ALSO taught it was the Canadian Taps & when I asked my Canadian Guider about this I was told (most emphatically) that was not the case. It is lovely, though. Haven't sung it in ages. (May now possibly be serenading the kittens with it. Perhaps.)

ComeIntoTheGarden
I am, yes. I can see Points For Parade has the potential to be tricky depending on the make-up of your Unit & your exact relationship with the church to which you are attached. My Brownie Unit is The Catholic Unit with our church name included in the Unit name & links to the Catholic Guide Guild etc. This means that we once in a Blue Moon get someone who's not a Catholic so as they should all - selon the Pope himself - be at Sunday Mass, it is not A Huge Thing for us to ask they come to this particular Mass.

However, leaving aside the complexity of ties to the church etc, I don't see how giving points for coming to church parade is "unfair". I think you'd be on wobbly ground if you were to start deducting points for NOT attending, but not for giving points for doing it - in the same way you might give out points to Guides who help weed the gardens of local elderly people (or something like that!) IYSWIM? My Brownies get points for correct attire & having certain things with them at Unit meetings: amazing how much better their memories are with the prospect of a prize at the end of term!

madwoman
Oooh, you Canadians-of-the-many-lovely-badges you. What was your Remembrance Day one like? (Not that I should really be having badge envy when I've as many of the things waiting to go on my blanket as is the case. Mind you, unless I regain some more use of my hands they will be in their tin for some time yet. Lesigh.)

It's pretty common [in cities] in the UK for Scouts & Guides not to attend a service at a war memorial. I take my Sixers & Seconders up to the Cenotaph & Field of Remembrance in addition to the Remembrance Sunday observances during the Church Parade Mass but that is because I am a fool my choice & done on my own initiative. As is having them add a poppy to the Scout section of the Field of Remembrance at the Abbey. IIRC the War Memorial for my town is inside one of the churches so I don't think the hundreds (actually, quite possibly, thousands) of local Guides & Scouts would fit!

LaLaGabby
So Guides & Scouts were active in the Resistance throughout occupied Europe & vital to the British War Effort not because they were opposed to Fascism at all but because...? Was the relief work in Germany from 1945-1952 in fact an attempt to maintain the status quo ante then? Pray do tell...

Blue, with red poppies and a trefoil, and a red border. the BC guides seem to have their own white one, but we just used the standard issue GGC one...

Interesting re memorial attendance - we only left UK a few years ago, so although I realize my own memories of UK guiding might be a tad out there (a la ancient history) dd1 and ds1 certainly started in the UK. I think even dd2 was a rainbow... We probably wouldn't have been considered inner-city though, lol! And most places the entire town seemed to schlep out - I assume because they recognized family names on the war memorial etc. I get that it is probably less 'personal' even from a community pov in the city...

Am enjoying the prospect of them turning the hordes away at the abbey doors. no, no, no more scouts and guides! Go away!

We were no 15 of about 25 units in our town which is part of a city. I once attended a thinking day service in the town centre in one if thee largest churches. The guides alone (no scouts or any other organisation) filled the entire church.

That's cool. A few months ago our local area (we are an outlier) ran a 'camp fire' to celebrate the Jubilee in the centre of the city, using the main city tower as the fire itself. I can't imagine the logistics. they are taking over a theme park to run the centennial celebrations next year. Much fun.

madwoman
Oooh, pretty!

People I know who Guide in [more/relatively] rural areas all do the Local War Memorial bit. Which I think is a lovely thing, especially in those places where there is still the family connection.

That campfire sounds AWESOME. (Er, am assuming you didn't set fire to the tower, right? Arson is NORTY. Although you could have all then extinguished the fire & rendered any necessary First Aid thanks to the Guide training )

My Region has now taken over Butlins at Bognor Regis twice: both times just for Brownies. I took some of mine on the second occasion they did so (for the Centenary of Guiding) & it was an incredible experience. A tiny bit dizzying, the swarming hordes of brown&yellow, though! Legoland Windsor's run days just for Guide groups too & I took my Brownies & Guides to one when I first took over the Brownie Unit. That was also quite an experience!

YABU, entirely a matter of personal choice. I'd be concerned if members dodged everything that was commuity centred but I Have always hesitated to involve my children in anything that could be termed militaristic.

So now we have quasi fascist and militaristic?

'twas ever thus. It's brownie bingo, mn stylee.

no actual fire.

I miss brown and yellow. Until this year, brownies wore orange and navy here (which was a bit of a shocker in itself) but do check out the new GGC uniforms - everyone is blue, with the merest hint of coloured flash for the different sections. It is a freaking nightmare. Trying to keep tabs on medium sized girls in multi section events is lunacy. You can be standing there going 'brownies?, brownies?' And suddenly realize they are all just slightly small guides, or gurt big sparks. And that your brownies could quite literally be, well, anywhere in the giant throng of identikit blue. At least they went for blue, I suppose. It could have been worse.

Higgle, there's always cadets. or, or, the woodcraft folk. Room for everyone in the youth movements of all kinds.

Militaristic is a long-running popular misconception about Guiding & Scouting - although Baden-Powell was a soldier he was very clear that Scouting & Guiding were NOT militaristic in nature. Disciplined, yes; militaristic, no. That concern was in fact responsible for the Scout uniform being shorts rather than trousers. Really, truly, on my Honour, Scout shorts are a symbol of Scouting's being non-militaristic. There is even an academic paper out there somewhere about the political significance of shorts in Scouting.

Am rather sad about the lack of fire there madwoman: I do love a good [camp]fire, me. I had a glorious Guide camp the summer I was 13: was left in charge of ALL THE FIRES for the weekend. Mwahahahahaha. Hem.

Golly. That looks a bit... interesting, uniformwise. I mean, it looks very nice & everything, but must be absolutely nightmareish at multisectional stuff. Are you allowed to wear unit neckers? With thousands of Brownies at Butlins it was very useful to have mine in their tightly-rolled, VERY-small-triangle-at-back, tied-in-a-friendship-knot-that's-covered-by-an-owl-woggle, red neckers. For yes, we could even spot ours amidst other red-neckered Brownies.

How's the adult uniform? I was flabberghasted to be informed, when I asked at CHQ if they'd any of the zip-front hoodies in a size 8, that they do not come in a size 8 as that's "not a standard size". Staff member in question then suggested that there's no size 8 because it's a jumper so you wear layers under it. I refrained from asking if she always gets her jumpers a size larger then. I have to rely on the fact Guidewear always shrinks when washed (doesn't even need tumble-drying!) & even then my size 8 stuff looks as though it was bought in the hopes of my growing into it! It was splendid during the Centenary year: it was the same polo shirt from Rainbows on so I could have a piece of uniform that actually fitted me! Lesigh. I remain (2 years on!) delighted by the Smart Shirt though (mine now almost-fits as it has shrunk & I have grown to be more a size 6 than a size 4) My only real issue with it is that it is a wee bit on the low-cut side: I am honestly quite tempted to see if I can't put another button on!

Regarding church parades in general (NOT Remembrance Sunday)...

From the Guiding Manual (bold emphasis mine):

"Girlguiding UK does not subscribe to any particular faith or religion and believes that every member should be encouraged to take an active part in the religion or faith of her family and community.

Attendance at any act of worship must always be voluntary and be seen as part of the spiritual development of the individual member. Attendance at church parade or any religious gathering is not part of the guiding programme.

No young member under 16 may attend a service of a faith or denomination other than her own, as a guiding event, without the consent of an adult with parental responsibility for her."

Remembrance Sunday, as others have said, has a civic/community focus, rather than a religious focus, and a service will often be multi-denominational or multi-faith.

At least she didn't say 'there's no size 8 because all guide leaders have to be a size 22. Trufact.'

I buy x-large for everyone. Our uniform is super-stretchy, goodness knows what it is made of, and is like those magic gloves - one size really does fit all! The leaders shirt is now pretty much the exact same shade of blue as all the girls.
It has been identical to the ranger shirt for years.

I could never work out why some old and bold wore their international uniform to everything. Now I know. The highlight of my week this week was when I had an email introducing anon-uniform guiding t shirt. It is RED. I am ordering it forthwith.

I now have a strange compulsion to track down said academic paper on political significance of shorts in scouting.

And yy sine. I doubt it will convince the naysayers though.

Ds missed it because he had three months ago received invitiation to bf's birthday party, which was costing bf's parents lots of money, and definitely better for him to miss church parade. But staying in bed would not be a good excuse.

I have more than once be told I can't be a Guider because I'm not "Guider built"

When they changed the Guide uniform here to a navy sweatshirt & Guiders still wore navy sweatshirts I spent a LOT of time having to explain to other Leaders that the reason I wasn't with "the other Guides"/doing xyz (etc) was that I was a Leader, not a Guide. Yes, really. Maybe I shouldn't mind too much about the zippyhoody as I might end up back in the same position

G. UK has some rather nice casualwearesque stuff but am resigned to it not being for me. A got a very pretty t-shirt a couple of years ago & it does that ohsounattractive baggy-when-obviously-meant-to-be-fitted thing when I wear it. I've lent it to a friend who's come on a couple of outings with my Brownies as Additional Adult & it looks LOVELY on her. However, it must be said that, however much I might be annoyed by being the wrong size for Guiding, I am at least the right size for ballet

I'm fairly sure the details of the paper in question will be in the bibliography of my dissertation & my copy thereof is reasonably handy (I was using it when planning my Brownie Unit's trip to the 1940s) so I can look it up for you when I am not meant to be being asleep.

YANBU.

Lol at the right size for ballet

Now I want to read your dissertation, too, natch.

It is our provincial centenary next year. I suspect much time travel will be involved.

Ballet is where the rest of my time goes, it wasn't picked completely at random. (I am also the right size for riding ponies, but I've not done that for almost a year. Lesigh.) I am the proud owner of some VERY pretty leotards & practice skirts, me... (Classical Ballet not the most obvious choice for someone with multiple physical disabilities, but I like to do things differently. Yes.)

From the bibliography alone I can't be sure, but I THINK the article about the political significance of Scout shorts was J Springhall's "Baden-Powell and the Scout Movement before 1920: Citizen Training or Soldiers of the Future?" The English Historical Review 102 (1987). It seems the most likely one, anyhow. Sadly my copies of the articles I used (along of all my other dissertation research stuff) are In Boxes In Storage so I cannot check. I actually really want to go back & re-read all the stuff I collated. Suppose I'll have to settle for reading my transcription of the notebook of My Heroine, Alison "Chick" Duke...

Someone wrote a book about the GGA during WWII fairly recently. I haven't been able to read it because it is Bad History. (Am also a bit pissed off she either didn't read or didn't ref my dissertation. Which, er, she really should have done...) My self-appointed Director Of Studies For Life seemed to take it even harder than I did, mind you - in her head that was definitely my book to write. Possibly my doctoral thesis, in fact. But that is very subjunctive thinking...

I think Time Travel is a very valuable part of Guiding. A few years ago rather than take the Brownies back we brought a Brown Owl, a Tawny Owl & a Pack Leader from 1919 into the present day. CHQ very kindly lent me the Brown Owl & Guide uniform (as a one-off incredibly special favour from the departing archivist) & I spent a happy afternoon in the archives doing some research. I got to touch one of the admission tickets to the signing of the Treaty of Versailles. I would quite like to live in the CHQ archives. There are so many lovely books & documents & artefacts. Like the 1st Buckingham Palace Guide Company's company colours, fr'example. (Oh yes, I've seen that. And FLAILED WITH GLEE.) Guide tunic was verging on indecently short on me, but it was incredibly cool to get to bop about in Proper Uniform & a Hat for the evening. With my own Guide belt, of which I am really rather fond. It was worth being the only Guide in the flipping Unit to wear culottes to now own a Guide belt. But I digress...

I own a guide belt. it just happens to fit dd1 and not me any more.

I did get the ballet choice - and fwiw think that classical ballet is the perfect choice for someone with pd. fortunately dd2's physio thinks so, too. and so does dd2. I used to be involved with a group that ran 'ballet for you' classes for kids with complex disabilities - all good stuff. she actually started ballet before she could stand upright without holding on to something for support....

Will have a dig around via athens. Have had equally hissy-inducing moments re dissertations, including one unmentionable who did actually quote my dissertation in print, but not reference it, claimed it as own. I should have just written the damned book myself instead of procrastinating.