to think if you do the fun stuff you should attend the duty stuff aswell.

[missmapp]

Ds1 goes to Beavers, it is a lovely group and they do lots of fun events, camp fires, night time walks, activity days, visits to lots of exciting places- these are always well attended. As it is Rememberance Sunday tomorrow , they have been asked to go to the Church Parade.

I wasn't sure of the time, so phoned a few other Mum's- all have said their ds does not want to go, so they won't be attending. Now Ds normally goes to football on a Sunday morning, but I have told him he needs to go to the service as it is part of being a Beaver. It saddens me that lots turn up to the fun things, but this will be a low turn out ( as it was last year-only 2my ds and 2 others)

So, AIBU ?

My daughter was chosen to be flag bearer today. She was proud to have been given the honour.

Context for you all. She chose to go to church today, to show her respect for those who gave so much, at the cost of seeing her dad. She's nine, and was given freedom to do as she wished. Seems she has more of a grasp of respect than a fair few adults I know.

I think that people are confusing 'church parade' and Rememberance Sunday. Ds1 is in Beavers (and went this morning), paraded and then took part in the service at the Cenotaph (lead by all the local religious leaders) for this specific occasion. No church service involved.

I don't think that it had anything to do with being a Christian-affiliated organisation but everything to do with young men and women who were leaders/parents/older members of the organisation who fought and were killed being remembered.

Obviously it is for parents to decide what to do if there's a clash of committements, but I don't think that it's anything to do with Christianity.

YANBU. It's one day a year, which is in no way too much to ask, and it's not hard to arrange other commitments around.

Glad you went, maybe more will be there next year.

I don't understand why a parent can't change churches once a year so their child can go to the Parade Service on Remembrance day though mosschops

But why should one organisation in this case Beavers take precedence over another.

I assume that pretty much any other activity going on today will have had an act of remembrance. Done if dd's friends are competing in a dance comp today. I'm sure they will have stopped. Sports matches will have delayed kick offs and often people in attendance who are guests of honour. Sometimes these occasions can be more moving.

Dd herself has already taken part in an act of remembrance at school with the cadets and the last post played. Wreaths are layed.

The OP felt that the beaver ceremony should take precedence others have said that other regular commitments on that day should.

Slightly off topic - is beavers a fairly new thing. When I was young there were brownies & guides, cubs & scouts?

my ds1 only strted beavers two weeks ago we attended remembrance parade at Cof E church and we are catholic.

Again it isn't about the organisation it is about taking part in the act of rememberance. It isn't just about stopping for 2 minutes or anything like that it is about people coming together to show unity in remembering the fallen.

People should be proud to have the chance to take part in a parade, they should want to go out and watch if they don't have the chance to parade.

Confused by your last post ditzy. Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me.

Sirzy. Dratted pred text

Its not that confusing!

I am disagreeing with you, you seem to show a distinct lack of understanding about the matter. It isn't to do with any organisation its about showing solidarity.

So you are saying that the remembrance day act at school is not as important as one organised by a church or beavers etc.

Why?

Thats not what i am saying at all. However, things like being told "we are doing a minutes silence we will stop" doesn't have the same meaning to it, as people gathering to pay respect together. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for both but remembrance services are about much more than just stopping for a minute.

There again the fact you earlier said you hadn't realised it was Remembrance Sunday speaks volumes really.

I hadn't realised because I don't keep track of dated. I was surprised to realise we had reached that point in November. I l

I was like is it really 9th already I thought we were only on 4th or 5th

we attended our local parade, my DS was flag bearer for Beavers, he was very excited and we were very proud

There was a reasonable turnout from all the local scout/guide groups, and they all sit at the front of the church and are deemed to be an important part of the service with a number of children taking part in particular part of the services eg doing a reading, singing a song. We are not particularly religious but feel that this is an important event for DS to attend, and even if he wasn't in the scouting group we would still attend the service as I feel that it is important for children to remember the fallen.

In my experience the parents of children who have a tendency not to turn up to certain events as they are not deemed "fun" are the first ones to complain that their children have not received enough badges

I run a guide unit. I have a large number of girls that just turn up to the fun stuff and then not to things like remembrance or church parade. These are religious organisations (not Christian per se anymore due to the world wide nature of the organisations). Community action is an integral part to the mission of both organisations - it isn't just about the fun stuff. Remembrance and church parade are part of this to try and instill a sense of community.

Remembrance aside - church parade is often a way to say thank you to the church that supports the unit. Many units get their hall use for nothing and financial contributions from the church that make it cheaper for any child to attend. Without that kind of support subs would be significantly higher - ours are 1.50 per week, without the church support it would be double which over the year would be £120 rather than £57 per child. If for no other reason that's a reason to try and attend.

It was definitely on pain of death not to turn up to the "big" parades (Mothering Sunday, Remembrance Sunday, Christmas and All County to name a few) when I went. I never minded, perhaps I was a boring kid but I loved nothing more than holding our troops colours (especially at all counties) I was a natural show off though

Its not about religion, that's true. The promise was changed when I was still in Guides to "do my duty to my God" instead of "do my duty to God". As someone up thread said, and as I have told my dd in the last couple of days because she asked, its a mark of respect to the fallen. Its even more important when you factor in there are still servicemen and women out on active duty. The problem is many service personnel know there is bad feeling towards our reasons for being in Afghanistan and Iraq, but they are doing their job (and being injured or killed whilst doing so), and we should respect them for that. Its the government we should be angry with.

There is a shocking attitude to service personnel old and new in this country, with no real support if they are out of action due to injury- just a "well, thanks for that and sorry you got hurt but how soon can you move out the home we lent you?" Its not the same as other countries, the US springs to mind, who look after and hero worship their ex-servicemen. A lot of ours end up homeless, unemployed and mentally ill.

All I'm saying is, this generation are the one's who can do something about this. Its a few hours, on a Sunday, once a year. Sod the other parades if footie or dance is more important to them, but this one time in the year, when schools barely even teach about it, kids TV doesn't even stop its inane drivel during the silence, and they live in times when it feels everyone is frightened they may "offend" certain groups its so important for the guiding and scouting movements to go a bit old school and say "yes, you will come and those who don't will miss the next fun activity we do"- that's how it was when I was a member.

Or do we not teach kids respect anymore?

Actually, Fellowship, there's no duty any more. Brownies and Guides promise to love their God.

Doesn't surprise me, its been near on 15 years since I've heard it or said it myself.

But why take out duty? Do they still mention the Queen or helping other people then?

It is now

I promise that I will do my best
To love my God
To serve my Queen and my country
To help other people
And to keep the BRownie Guide law.

I wasn't in Guiding at the time the wording changed, but I think it's about doing these things because they are good and worthwhile in themselves, not because they are a duty.

Fair enough, its not that different, mine was:

I promise that I will do my best
To do my duty to (my) God
To serve my Queen and country
To help other people
And to keep the Brownie Guide law

We also used to have a song at the end before we left at Guides, I think, that went "Oh Lord thy God, thy Children call, grant us thy peace, and bless us all", and all the patrols used to sing that at Jamboree.

I honestly never thought about the religious significance, we weren't a religious family in the slightest. I went to Sunday School, but like Guides and Dance clubs, I now believe that was just so my parents (who didn't attend with my Dsis and I) could get a bit of peace without us pair walking in at the wrong moment.

That song is Brownie Bells. We still sing it every week.

I remember Briwnue Bells. I'm trying to remember Taps. Was it something like Go well and safely the Lord be ever with you?

YANBU

Our parade was actually really well attended today, DD1 was laying a wreath with scouts, DD2 was with Beavers and we were the largest group there

Our scout group make it very clear that you are expected to attend Remembrance Parade and St George's Day parade

I find it that it's always the same few who never turn up for the parades, but always turn up for the fun stuff - the discos, the camps, to meet Ellen McArthur, etc, etc

Yanbu. My dds (one a Brownie, one a Beaver) both attended the parade and church service today. We had a great turn out in our village, thank goodness. I did think earlier that a friend's ds never seems to turn up for the 'boring' cub duties, such as Rememberence Sunday and the AGM ceremony, but is quite happy to go along to the fun things. I told myself that I was possibly being a little sanctimonious, but I can see on here that actually my musings were quite valid!