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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to want to drop a foreign friend?

327 replies

livingintheeast · 30/10/2012 20:58

Firstly let me get one thing straight - I am not a rascist and I have a foreign mother (a genuine one not one of those that people sometimes invent just to prove how PC they are). It is a real bugbear of mine that my foreign friend will constantly talk to her lo in their mother tongue. They are both perfectly capable of speaking english - the mother talks to me/my lo in english and the lo talks to me/my lo in english. Personally I find it blooming rude and so irriatating that I'm not sure I want to be around them much at all. Even my lo has resorted to asking me (in her 2.5 year old way) what they are saying - and I don't have a clue! I know my friend wants her lo (also 2.5) to know her mother tongue but surely on a playdate, with english people etc it's just common courtesy to speak in english. AIBU?

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2012 17:52

On your recent question... My DM and DF learnt Italian but never thought in Italian, never dreamed in Italian. I think that is the difference when you learn it young. It still comes back to me, 30 years later, it wouldn't with them.

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2012 17:53

They didn't do OPOL with 3, they did OPOL with two and the children learnt the other language.

riksti · 31/10/2012 17:55

I didn't start learning English till I was 12. That is part of the reason why I will always have an accent. I also had to learn it in school and I sometimes still make grammar mistakes because it's not a natural sentence structure for me.

There is no way I could get my daughter to LEARN Estonian as it's probably impossible to find a teacher from the Midlands. Therefore I have to make sure she picks it up ... Organically (best word I could come up with). Hence the OPOL. Hope that answers your question

Original poster
livingintheeast · 31/10/2012 17:55

My mum says she has to think about it what certain words are even now. Funnily enough so does my friend, by her own admission she's forgotten some words. My point was that I am sure the odd hour wouldn't make a huge amount of difference to grasping a language.

OP posts:
stitch · 31/10/2012 17:57

I did what the op wants her foreign friend to do and spoke to my lo in english when around english speaking friends. As a result, ds can no longer speak my mother tongue, and barely understands the gist of it. Three cheers to your friend for sticking to her guns, and hope she continues to do so.

Original poster
livingintheeast · 31/10/2012 17:57

Thank you Riski, yes it does. My mother does speak with a strong accent (apparently, I don't actually hear it! Lol) but strangely enough other members of the family say she speaks Spanish with an English accent! Bless her.

OP posts:
Original poster
livingintheeast · 31/10/2012 17:58

Like me stitch. I could understand it all at one time, and still get the gist now, but could never speak.

OP posts:
Francagoestohollywood · 31/10/2012 18:00

@Livingintheeast.

I moved to the UK at 28 (I am Italian), my English was already quite good. I lived there for 8 yrs, but I had the feeling that I would have never got the accent I so longed to have or 100% perfect fluency.
For example: after a few hrs of being in a 100% English environment my head starts spinning around and my accent gets worse.

stitch · 31/10/2012 18:00

as for the 'friends' i had at the time, I no longer see any of them anymore. not because of anything sinister, just geographical movements. I wish wish wish i had stuck to my guns and spoken to my kids in my language rather than try and be socially acceptable. This is one of those things in life that simply cannot be undone.
:(
not speaking the language, they cant access the culture and will forever be considered foreigners and outsiders in their mothers culture. sorry op, but that is more important than any awkwardness you might feel

Francagoestohollywood · 31/10/2012 18:01

My children were born in the Uk and were brought up speaking Italian with me and dh and obviously English at nursery/school etc etc have never ever bat an eyelid when exposed to people speaking different languages.

Francagoestohollywood · 31/10/2012 18:02

And when we were in the UK, I've never been made feel uncomfortable when I spoke in Italian to my dc by anyone (I think Grin

Original poster
livingintheeast · 31/10/2012 18:03

I kind of wonder why speaking it full time at home isn't enough.

OP posts:
MousyMouse · 31/10/2012 18:05

people who become bilingual later in life might remain with a stronger accent as the palate forms in the first few years of life and also the brain 'discards' sounds that are just not used in your language (the german 'ü' or the english 'th' come to mind)

after more than 10 years in english speaking countries I still make grammatical and spelling mistakes that I would never do in my mother tongue.

riksti · 31/10/2012 18:06

But it's not full time of you're working, is it?

riksti · 31/10/2012 18:06

IF, not of

stitch · 31/10/2012 18:23

in my case the issue was that dh and i dont speak the same language, so there was a great deal of english spoken around my children.

SuiGeneris · 31/10/2012 18:30

What Bonsoir said.

SuiGeneris · 31/10/2012 18:39

@livingintheeast

As mentioned upthread by a few posters (including me) speaking the minority language at home is not enough because:

  1. You need to model the minority language in different situations
  1. Consistency makes life easier for the younger children (and the adults). Imagine if you had to call your mother a different name every time you were in a room with green curtains (or other random condition): wouldn't you find that confusing? Wouldn't you make mistakes? Now imagine being 2 and also having to use different words for everything around you...
  1. You don't spend that much time at home, especially if the parent who speaks the minority language also works and/or the family language is the majority one.

... Must go as DS2 has woken up. Will be back.

Brycie · 31/10/2012 19:05

yanbu, sounds a bit weird to me

MousyMouse · 31/10/2012 19:08

...interesting that this op comes from a bilingual background herself...

Francagoestohollywood · 31/10/2012 19:12

"I kind of wonder why speaking it full time at home isn't enough."

To add to what SuiGeneris pointed out, also often it is more "natural" to speak to your dc in your mother tongue, especially when they are little and you are using pet names and you have developed your own "lexicon" iyswim.

EscapeInTheCity · 31/10/2012 19:45

@livingintheeast I would like to answer a few of your questions.

  • the story about 'windows' of opportunity with language is about the ability to learn sounds like if you were a native speaker. If you learn a language before 3yo then you will be able to be bilingual, speaking the language as a native, ie wo an accent. If you learn if later on (eg at primary school as my dcs do) it's too late and they will be learning the language in the same way than an adult will.
Of course, any adult can learn a language and be bilingual but the chances are they will never master the accent and sound completely native.
  • I arrived in the UK when I was 29yo, I am completely fluent and bilingual but I still and prob will always have an accent. This was (and is) an issue because it means it is very difficult for me to support my dcs when they do phonics at school or when we talk about spelling (or reading) because there are some sounds I cannot pronounce or hear correctly, hence quite a bit of confusing on my dcs side...
  • Why is talking the minority language at home not enough? because in my household we speak two languages, all the time. Also because the time spent at home might actually be smaller than the time spent outside home (eg nursery, childminders, playgroups etc...) where the child will hear english only.
If you are not careful the time hearing the minority language diminishes down to not a lot, or certainly not enough for the child to learn the language easily. Add to that that he/she will be more comfortable in the other language, the chances are that the child will drop the 'difficult' language altogether.
  • Also as I have pointed out before, children get used to answer in one language and will find it difficult to just 'switch' from one language to the other with the same person. Have you ever tried to do that yourself? Even when you are very fluent, it is difficult. I know that I have a good friend who is coming from the same country than me. When we meet with other friends, we both find it difficult to speak english. Not because we don't want to but because we got used to use our mother together and that's what comes out naturally without thinking.
EscapeInTheCity · 31/10/2012 19:50

Btw I am still surprised at the amount of time you seem to be spending talking to the dcs together.

Tbh, the only way this can be solved is if she was to speak engish with her dc when you are together, Which would go against her parenting choice.

So I would deal with it as you would for any other parenting choice that friend do. Either you can live with it and you carry on. Or you can't and you stop seeing her in that sort of circumstances.

Francagoestohollywood · 31/10/2012 19:53

Agree re accent.

Se moved back to Italy when dc were 5.5 and 3.5 and despite them still being fluent in English, they have lost their lovely devonian accent! (Incredibly ds, who is the oldest actually lost more accent than his sister).

I have to say though that my dc have never had probs switching from one language to the other.

spoonsspoonsspoons · 31/10/2012 19:55

I'm not sure on the whole accents thing. I do wonder if it does in part depend on the languages involved. My Danish OH does have an accent, but it's a regional British accent despite only learning English at school. A few of his friends have developed an accent local to where they first spent time in the UK too.

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