To not get why a vaginal birth is so important to some people?

[Liketochat1]

Some mothers talk of the trauma and disappointment of not giving birth vaginally. Some say they don't feel like a proper woman or that their body failed them. For many this sounds very traumatic, for others moaning.
AIBU to not 'get' why this is so important to them? I've had 2 c sections and was only intensely grateful that I live in a country and in an age where there are gifted surgeons and resources available to perform these life saving operations. In other parts of the world women are dying in childbirth as they don't have access to these.
Am I so unreasonable to think this?

Basically, if you tell women that natural childbirth is something their bodies take over and they won't need painkillers and then they do, they can feel that they did something wrong or that they were too 'weak'.

If, like me, you don't buy into the woo, birthing blankets and primal moans, you don't feel any guilt!

My second delivery was a genuinely enjoyable experience, largely thanks to the gas and air, and my ginormous baby dropping out like a greased piglet unexpectedly without me pushing [does that mean I have terrible pelvic floor muscles?] but it would have been hideous without the gas and air, and that was a speedy, normal delivery with a six minute second stage.

I lost the gas and air as I was dragged over to the bed by the midwife, and OH got about a million zillion credits (almost as many as the anaethetist who did my spinal first time round) for finding the mouthpiece and shoving it back in my gob as Teddy's shoulders came out.

Breezy you "sense an undertone here and in general that people are trying to convince themselves and others that having a VB is dangerous"

The fact of the matter is that birth (by whatever means) is dangerous. It is brutal and painful and bloody. People die doing it.

I had an emcs after 12 hours of labour, which was going OK. I was rather enjoying it, once I got the epidural. Things took a fairly swift turn for the worse (not crash section-worthy, just rather urgent), hence the section.

In the highly unlikely even that I ever had another baby, I would opt for an elcs. Despite the urgency of getting him out, the whole experience was quiet and calm and beautiful (I'm lucky there, I appreciate that). I couldn't give a fig that I couldn't hold him straight away - his father got first dibs there (after the person who hoiked him out, and a MW).

YANBU OP. I can understand feeling disappointed, but it angers me that women feel like failures if they don't VB. Or if they struggle to BF for that matter. Where on earth does it come from?

OP, YANBU - but if I were you, I would accept that you don't know why VB is so important to some people, keep quiet and and just let them get on with it.

I come at this from the opposite angle of someone who emphatically has never wanted a VB, had a planned CS for my first and will be having a planned CS for my next DC.

A lot of women don't understand why I have so much preference for a CS over a VB. They don't have to. They are welcome to their opinions, but can keep them to themselves.

I do sometimes wonder what all of this talk of birth in terms of 'achievement? and 'failure' means to those mothers who adopt. No one thinks they are lesser parents because they have not grown and birthed a child biologically in whatever way. I would hope.

Vaginal delivery of a baby without pain relief is a fabulous human experience! That's why it's important

If giving birth was such a fabulous human experience there would not be nearly half a million deaths in childbirth every year. Birth is just a way to get a large object out of a small hole - and an evolutionary flaw if ever there was one.

I say that as someone who had her second child naturally without pain relief.

But also as someone who had her first OP position baby after 48 hours in labour, Keilland forceps and enough damage to make it impossible for me to sit down (except on the the side of one bum cheek) for three months afterwards) never mind the ongoing fanjo pain for months. Believe me I would have given my eye teeth for a CS and thanked God my daughter had one when she was in a similar position in her first labour as I was.

I had an emcs after 24hrs on labour ward contracting every 2 minutes. I gave in and had an epidural after being 3 cm dilated for 12 hrs. I tried everything, gas and air, tens machine, diamorphine, going in the pool etc. I was knackered after 12 hrs of not getting anywhere. Once the epidural was in I had the synth drip and carried on throughout the night. I got to fully dilated, pushed for nearly 2 hours but baby was in the op position and just would not turn. I eventually had emcs but the dr who examined me in theatre was so rough that he gave me a vaginal tear that needed suture. There was no attempt at forceps or ventouse delivery, he tore me with his FINGERS! I had abdominal and vaginal sutures.

I found the whole experience very difficult to deal with afterwards and had awful pnd and PTSD. I felt like the dr had assaulted me.

I would ask for ELCS next time, there is no way that I would want to repeat that experience, I felt like such a failure

Grimbletart we have had very similar experiences, but I do think vaginal birth can be a wonderful human experience. It's not essential, but if you have a great birth it does feel very special in addition to the amazingness of bringing human life into the world. I was delighted to find I could cope with that level of pain, it made me feel really strong at a time in my life I was feeling very vulnerable and out of control.

There are loads of human experiences that can be wonderful but that not everyone will ever do - my husband won't ever get to be pregnant, I don't think it's likely I'll ever scale the Himalayas or bungee jump or discover something no one has ever seen or thought of before.. but these are all wonderful human experiences too, some which might also result in death. I don't think it has to be an either/or thing e.g. vb can't be great because it's not great or achievable for everyone in every circumstance.

YABU, I also had a fabulous emcs, and am also grateful that I could access the healthcare that made it possible for us both to come out the other side of it

but, y'know, its like heart surgery - its wonderful, I'm so grateful that I live in a country where everyone who needs it will get it.. but I'll strive to keep my heart healthy and avoid it and be very pleased if I reach old age with a lifetime of cardiac health... in the same way that I will strive for a VB and be very pleased to have achieved it

I get a little bit upset sometimes about not having been able to have vaginal births, because it does make me feel like a failure, or inadequate as a woman.

But I get very upset about it when people imply that it was somehow my fault, that if I had a higher pain threshold/tried a different position/didn't succumb to painkilling drugs after 15 bloody hours of agony/thought more positively/didn't give in to the fear etc etc etc then it wouldn't have happened. All of these are comments that I have read on chat forums/comments sections on newspapers etc

Mostly its like water off a ducks back, I read the comment and I think 'piss off, you weren't there, you have no idea, how dare you?' but sometimes, if I'm feeling delicate, the comments hurt.

So I suppose that is why a vaginal birth seems important to me.

strikethrough fail!

YANBU but some women are very emotionally vulnerable after giving birth. It's sort of part of PND perhaps?

YANBU, but then it might be different having had a vaginal birth origianlly, and then a C-section. I've had one C-section (for twins, an emergency otherwise it would be vaginally) and I thought that maybe I just wasn't good at being a mother for the first few days, because I'd had a C-section. Then common sense took over.

I'm having another C-section in six weeks (triplets- no avoiding it and I'm just glad that I can be counting down the days to a set date, go in at a set time and not have labour unexpectedly, hopefully), and I don't feel a failure. But with multiples, vaginal births aren't often options, so I have less reasons too.

Have had two VBs. The first was fine, the second was very traumatic. With hindsight I wish I'd had a CS second time round, but if I had, I'd be writing that with hindsight I wish I'd tried for a VB.

I do personally feel that the natural way is often the better way, while being grateful that such interventions exist as a fall-back. But that's for everyone to decide for themselves. There's never been two identical births so why should everyone's feelings about birth be the same?

YANBU.

I've had a VB and an EMCS.

I can honestly say that all I was concerned about on both occasions was the baby being born safely and alive.

I became pregnant because I wanted a family, not for the experience of 'giving birth' so how it got out wasn't really important.

I loved having a natural birth, I felt like superwoman after. However, when all is said and done, I would take a C-section and a healthy baby in a heartbeat. I can understand why some women are disappointed, but the most important thing isnt how the baby arrives, just that it arrives safely.

and like any surgery, no matter how happy I was with the outcome and how grateful I was for having it, its still a bit sad that for whatever reason my body wasn't doing what it should have done.

I'm really hopeful for a VBAC, its better for the baby, it'll make it easier to parent two afterwards, it'll mean my body was allowed to do what it should this time (not slowed down by getting stressed and bright lights and crap positions).. its not about me ticking an experience box though

gave birth naturally four times and quite frankly I found labour and birth absolutely hideous. I would have been quite happy to have been knocked unconscious for the whole thing. I asked for a c section for all of them but was refused. I can say this now looking back on the experience as all of them were induced and 3 were in NICU afterwards.

that being said it is down to everyones own individual choice

Vaginal delivery of a baby without pain relief is a fabulous human experience!

If it was all that fabulous, I bet men would have figured out a way to do it by now...

I didn't find giving birth vaginally was a life-changing experience or that having an emergency caesarian left me traumatised.

But that was probably because I had a good caesarian, relaxed, not unexpected, with a supportive medical team and good breastfeeding support afterwards. If I had had a scary caesarian, I expect it would have changed how I viewed both these births forever after. So I can't find myself wondering about women who are scarred by their caesarians: it just seems so obvious that they didn't have my caesarian but a totally different experience.

(I do wonder a bit about the fabulous human experience that is vaginal birth though. I felt mine was a bit ho-hum, really. Perhaps one ought to either be traumatised or magically transformed: I didn't really seem to manage either. Is ho-hum a valid human experience or should I try to rewrite it in terms of one or the other?)

Having a filling without anaesthetic, is that a fabulous human experience too?

I had to have gas and air when they stitched me up. Both times.

For me a vaginal birth was/is important as a bridge between being pregnant and being mother to my child - the process.

Then there are considerations around how hard/easy breastfeeding is to establish. And also (a slightly odder one perhaps), I subscribe to the theory that the baby's gut is populated with important bacteria on its journey down the birth canal.

But fundamentally, I'm a feminist and I believe in a woman's right to bodily autonomy. What's right for me might not be right for the next person, and it's not my place to tell anyone else how they should want to give birth!

My conclusion from this thread, so far, is that many women who don't achieve a good VB actually feel like failures because:

a) They put themselves under pressure because they've listened to the views & opinions of other (often unrelated) people on the subject;

b) They put themselves under pressure to be 'perfect' because... we all feel we should be successful at lots of things basically.

So if anyone feels like a 'failure' for not having a good Vaginal Birth - please accept that you are not a failure!!

Remember:

Brand new Babies don't remember how they were born & don't care.

They don't care if they get breast milk or formula.
They don't care if they have to wait hours after the birth to meet you.

They just care that they get fed, cuddled & cared for by the one person they think is perfect - their mum. :)

Many people are just a bit crap at empathising with others. I'm not sure if it is possible to improve those skills, or if self-awareness is the best that can be hoped for. Perhaps you could give either a go, anyway, op, and let us know how you get on

I think the continuum from traumatic-ho hum-transformative is probably based on a lot of things that have little to do with the actual fact of a baby emerging from a vagina. I really did find my first vb traumatic and my second one transformative... but I can see how if my first vb hadn't had the sudden crash ending how it could have been a bit ho hum. Very long, induced, epidural, pushed for two hours. I'm sure the actual bit of meeting my baby would have been magical but that is neither here nor there is it.. but the whole hospital bed/being coached to push and all that was sort of unremarkable.

However, by the time I gave birth to my second, I had been through such a crazy time of it. Was told at 7 weeks that my baby was measuring only 5 and had no heartbeat, at 9 weeks I ended up in hospital apparently miscarrying and was talked through it by a doctor only to find a heartbeat, had on-off bleeding and found it hard to believe I was even pregnant. By 28 weeks I was really in a bad way and diagnosed by the perinatal mental health team as having OCD. I was obsessed with birth and images of my baby dying... and in the weeks before birth, these were sometimes incessant. At one point I wanted cs. At another I was begging for an induction, just to get it over with. I actually had started to believe that there was no way on earth that my baby would survive birth. It was horrendous.

So when I finally went into labour I was terrified and consequently had a stop start labour with incredibly slow dilation but was just treated so well by the hospital and was given the home from home suite complete with stars on the ceiling and colour changing lights and giant pool to labour in even though I wasn't officially dilated enough.

Managing that labour with my severe, extreme anxiety and going through it without pain relief and getting a beautiful, calm waterbirth was - well - amazing. It helped so much.

I don't imagine if I do have another that it will ever be anything like that, I don't think anything could ever have compared.. so I don't say it was amazing because that's some sort of cool thing to say or because I'm all woo and brainwashed but because at this incredibly difficult time in my life, the culmination of years of other trauma I had kept buried, things worked out and I managed to go through it without making a decision that was about my fear.