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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not get why a vaginal birth is so important to some people?

540 replies

Liketochat1 · 24/10/2012 11:42

Some mothers talk of the trauma and disappointment of not giving birth vaginally. Some say they don't feel like a proper woman or that their body failed them. For many this sounds very traumatic, for others moaning.
AIBU to not 'get' why this is so important to them? I've had 2 c sections and was only intensely grateful that I live in a country and in an age where there are gifted surgeons and resources available to perform these life saving operations. In other parts of the world women are dying in childbirth as they don't have access to these.
Am I so unreasonable to think this?

OP posts:
designerbaby · 02/11/2012 00:28

Gosh... I thought this thread had gone quiet...

Blue81. Sounds like you've been trying to tough it out for a while. Trouble is, when you try to push a traumatic experience down, it doesn't go away it just goes deeper. There is this thought ? and it's been expressed on here by many ? that if you have a healthy child, then nothing else should matter. But it does.

fedupofsomecalledexperts explained so eloquently how and why that is.

In a way the fear in situation like this is double - fear for yourself but a double helping for your baby on top. It's also the kind of experience which can drag in a whole lot of other stuff from your past into the mix.

My 'trauma' started at 12 weeks when we were told DD1in all likelihood had a not compatible with life trisomy and offered a termination. It was badly handled at the time, which made a bad situation worse.

It took two weeks to get the all-clear on the trisomy, during which time I expressed wishes to 'not be pregnant', and huge guilt for feeling that about my child.

Once that was ruled out we were looking at 'just' an exomphalos. They thought a massive one, so we were facing a baby who would probably have to have drastic surgery shortly after birth, and pretty poor odds. In a weird way this seemed cope-able with after facing down the trisomy.

We went for a scan at 18 weeks to determine the extent, only to be told there was no longer any evidence of an exomphalos. No one could explain what happened.

I didn't cope brilliantly with the whole episode, to be honest, but spent the next 5 months trying to feel positive about the pregnancy.

Then throw is being two weeks overdue, 'failing' to go into labour spontaneously, 'failing' to respond to induction.

Then throw in uterine hyperstimulation (think a four hour contraction which didn't stop) due to the drug they used to induce me, (unlicensed for induction, as it turns out) awhen I thought I was going to die, but was told that I was 'failing' to handle the pain of labour, and to be quiet because I was on a postnatal ward.

Then a new consultant realising what was happening and getting an epidural in and further drugs to counter the effects of the misoprostil, then different ones to get the labour started again.

Then 'failure' to progress, and 'failure' to dilate, despite my managing to keep upright and mobile even with an epidural in. Frantically hip swivelling for 16 hours while DH propped me up so I didn't fall over.

Then DD1 passing meconium (probably due to the hyperstimulation), being told "you have an hour to make some progress or we're going to have to do a CS. It's up to you." (How? Exactly?).

Then being told "we're getting the baby out now". Some indecision about whether that would be a CS or forceps, being wheeled to theatre, and having her brutally dragged out of me with forceps, which took 40 minutes and two consultants on the other end of the forceps.

Being told I wasn't "making enough effort with pushing" and that I "HAVE TO HELP" get the baby out. I had been in labour for over 50 hours by this point, on the epidural for nearly 18 hours, so hadn't been allowed to eat. I was barely conscious and had no idea what was going on, really. But the general message form the consultant was that I really wasn't trying hard enough. (Have to say, the midwives were nothing but supportive and sympathetic, by contrast... but the damage was done.)

DD was fine, but I simply couldn't see how she could be. After all that, HOW could I have a perfectly healthy baby?

I had an extended 3rd degree tear, extensive vaginal and cervical lacerations, and spent an hour being put back together.

But yes, you're right. NO REASON why that should be traumatic at all. My baby was healthy. How selfish of me to be anything other than grateful and delighted. I ought to have, as someone said, gotten a GRIP.

And no, no offer of a debrief. After all, it was a perfectly straightforward birth, right? What could possibly need explaining!?

But second that the BTA are amazing. Instrumental in, quite literally, saving my life. After the thoughts I'd had during pregnancy, and then my many failures in labour, fast forward 6 months and I thought I was a total failure in every respect as a mother. She was a very colicky baby who didn't really sleep or eat. That, I figured was my fault too. I figured that my DD would be better off without someone who had wished her dead/gone at 12 weeks, and then very nearly killed her by being rubbish at labour and was clearly rubbish at being a mother...

Ot took a year of counselling and medication to get back onto an even keel. It was only really the birth of DD2, (and a more different birth you could not imagine) to really get my head right.

Blue81, do get help with this stuff. It's toxic, but you can get past it. It'll maybe always be there, and I still feel emotional when I talk/write about it, but like grief, it becomes less raw, and something you learn to live alongside.

Confuddled just (((((((unmumsnetty-hugs))))))). You've done so amazingly well and have had to deal with more than anyone should have to. I bet you're an amazing mum to your little girl.

db
xx

p.s. Kilmiur either you haven't bothered to read the thread or you are gobsmackingly insensitive. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and plumping for the former.

confuddledDOTcom · 02/11/2012 11:43

It took me 2.5 years to "get over" those feelings, although I'm sure they don't totally go away, I had a bad experience last year after my youngest was born and started to get Pure O (did you ladies suffer that too?) fortunately it only lasted for a couple of days but it really scared me thinking it had come back.

I was in a mess, my Day Three Five Blues were so bad they called the M&B team from the local MH hospital to come and see me (I was in hospital just over 3 weeks). She went into hospital with bronchiolitis as a baby and they called someone to come and see me, I didn't realise then why as I wasn't upset but I had that loop thing/ bit of Pure O going on that I think they picked up.

Without meaning to blow my own trumpet, I made myself a brilliant mum! I was so scared about breaking someone else's baby that I became obsessed with doing it right, I became a hippy lol there's not many things I think I have done well but most of what I've done as a mum I know I've done to the best of my ability. I say that without boasting, I had no choice.

blue, I do hope that this thread has been positive for you and you can find help. If your GP can get you into a M&B clinic they should be used to dealing with BT.

designerbaby, I don't suppose you felt like you'd failed did you Hmm isn't language powerful?

Blue81 · 02/11/2012 11:59

designer and confuddled

I sat down and talked it through with my mum and ex partner last night. (Really weird situation, as DS's dad didn't want to give my baby back to me because of PND, buts that is a long story on another thread) I was shouting at him saying that my birth didn't help things and did he realise that I had PND, I am not a shit mum!

He pointed out that baby's cord was loosely around his neck and that if I had given birth vaginally that the doctors said the cord would most likely have tightened and he would have been strangled!!

I had been told about it, I have a vague recollection of it being mentioned at some point but somehow had forgot this.

I have lost faith in God, but just recently there have been some massive coincidences in my life and I can't help but think someone somewhere was looking out for me. Yes it was scary but the alternative is far far worse.

confuddledDOTcom · 02/11/2012 12:44

Something worth looking into is do/ did you have PND or is it the BT because it's often misdiagnosed, especially if you've been diagnosed by a GP or HV (unless they're good) and they need to be handled differently. They don't usually come together although they can.

Your ex has done what a lot of people on this thread have, put the facts before the emotions - don't allow yourself to do that until you're ready, they're two separate things. Something to think about, how can you strangle someone who doesn't breathe?

I can understand how PTSD can leave you questioning God, but trust Him, call Him and He'll be part of your recovery.

designerbaby · 02/11/2012 13:02

confuddled whatever gave you that idea? GrinSad. The language surrounding labour and birth is so unhelpful... SadAngry

I can relate to much of what you describe, both the pure O and the desire to be a 'perfect mum'. I'm glad to hear yours was positive, for me it was a manifestation of my pnd. I was clearly a failure at all things to do with pregnancy and birth but by God, I was going to make up for it by being the Perfect Mother.

I practically MEMORISED bloody Gina bloody Fords book, and tried to follow it to the MINUTE. I got very agitated and anxious if we were a minute off schedule, or if DD had fed for less time than she ought (which she invariably did) or napped less than she should (ditto). I was a nightmare to be around, frankly, and it must have been torture for my poor DD.

But that's just a word of caution, I guess.

Blue81 the NHS don't perform a crash CS under GA unless there's a bloody good reason. You had no choice at that point, you had to do what was necessary to save your baby.

That knowledge doesn't make it any less traumatic an experience, and doesn't mean you should feel any differently, but it's important to hear, OFTEN, that you did nothing wrong, you did the very best you could in the circumstances you were in.

If I have said that I think more CSs are performed than might be necessary, it not because I think that women are in any way responsible for that. Mostly its due to lack of support in labour, that the mother has BEEN FAILED, not has failed. Crucial difference.

And PND doesn't make you a shit mum. The very opposite, in fact. It's because you care so much that you find it so hard.

Please talk to someone's IRL. You can, and will, feel better. It does get better. I barely recognise the person I was 5 years ago. You will look back at this, and mourn this time, but you will be looking back from a far brighter, stronger place.

((((Hugs))))

db
Xx

confuddledDOTcom · 02/11/2012 13:51

Ah, I was fortunate to get steered away from Gina Ford pretty quickly because of the forums I hung around. Breastfeeding became really important to me, it was the one thing that only I could do (OK, technically any lactating woman could do but I ignored that point) and having taught her to breastfeed I wasn't going to let anything stop me, so that got me around a lot of crunchy/ breastfeeding types and I learnt a lot.

Blue, I didn't mean to suggest that they didn't do it for no reason, but if that's the only thing you know then it would be worth debriefing because there could be more to it. I totally agree with what designer said about sections!

Actually, that point about not failing but BEEN failed is something I've often used about breastfeeding too. Instead of the people who should help us and should know better helping us they go for the easy (on them) options and we end up undermined.

I'm just chuckling here at how this thread has been hi-jacked, but it's for a good cause and I hope it's helped the naysayers from this thread! As well as people who have suffered BT of course.

Blue81 · 02/11/2012 20:47

confuddled I meant that if babies heart rate hadn't crashed and I had been able to have a vaginal birth the doctors said he could have died anyway. I know they don't breathe until out but because the cord would have tightened maybe they meant no blood or oxygen getting to him through the cord whilst he was being born?? I am really not sure, just know that it was a blessing in disguise that I had a section despite the scary circumstances.

The reason I had a crash section was his heart beat went scarily low and I am not sure but think it may have stopped as they couldn't find it. I really can't remember details as had diamorphine so was away with the fairies!

confuddledDOTcom · 02/11/2012 21:08

Ah right, sorry missed that. It's possible then that the cord was what was sending baby into distress. Choking isn't an issue because they don't breathe until the cord is cut but it could cut off the flow to the head.

Definitely sounds like you need to debrief though so that you understand it all. It's surprising how little even the people who are with you knew about what was going on, my partner and Mum couldn't have filled in as many details as I got from debrief.

Blue81 · 02/11/2012 22:09

How do I go about asking for one? Do I contact the hospital direct?

confuddledDOTcom · 02/11/2012 22:32

You can either ring the hospital main number and ask to be put through to a Supervisor of Midwives or you can call PALS and ask them to arrange a meeting for you. The SoM was the most useful of the two for me as with PALS the lady I met seemed to see it as a fault finding exercise whereas the SoM saw it for what it was - I needed to understand the timings and why things happened like they did, when they did. May vary from hospital to hospital but it does seem logical that it was seen that way as PALS is often about complaints and SoMs are usually more midwifery (like pure midwifery without the NHS/ trust head on) focused so understand things like that better if that makes sense.

designerbaby · 02/11/2012 22:33

I'd recommend getting hold of your notes (you usually have to pay £10 and wait a bit) and then contacting the Birth Trauma Association.

db
xx

FlangelinaBallerina · 03/11/2012 08:06

If you're asking for a copy of your notes, make sure you put in your letter that you're making a subject access request under the Data Protection Act, and you're aware that they need to comply within 40 days. I'm in the process of doing this at the moment.

pmTea · 09/11/2012 10:28

bloody effing Baby Whisperer and Gina Ford should be BANNED Angry

confuddledDOTcom · 11/11/2012 00:31

Agreed, pmTea, but what have they got to do with PTSD?

Blue81 · 11/11/2012 22:41

I can't really remember reading Gina Ford books but I am sure I had a baby weaning book by her. It was alright from what I remember. Confused

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