To not get why a vaginal birth is so important to some people?

[Liketochat1]

Some mothers talk of the trauma and disappointment of not giving birth vaginally. Some say they don't feel like a proper woman or that their body failed them. For many this sounds very traumatic, for others moaning.
AIBU to not 'get' why this is so important to them? I've had 2 c sections and was only intensely grateful that I live in a country and in an age where there are gifted surgeons and resources available to perform these life saving operations. In other parts of the world women are dying in childbirth as they don't have access to these.
Am I so unreasonable to think this?

YANBU

It took me 7 years to have my 3 and was told I'd probably never be a mum which would have been a disappointment I don't think I could have lived with to be frank.The fact I had 2 c/ss seriously doesn't even register on my scale of disappointment.

I couldn't give a stuff how they were conceived,came out or fed.

They're here and I'm a mummy.

I also have 2 friends who will suffer for the rest of their lives due to their vaginal births.

Commander sending you these

"The op can understand or not understand anything she feels fit, so INBU in that respect, however taking the 'only thing that matters is a live mother and baby' line is a great way of poo-pooing other peoples birth experiences - experiences they may feel very deeply about."

^^^That

and also

"It's fucking excruciating. But the experience can be positively life changing in a good way. It was for me. Obviously I wouldn't swap my baby's health for it, but all things being equal, it was an incredibly important experience for me psychologically. I know other people who feel the same."

^^^ That too.

My second birth was the only thing which properly dealt with my PND. It wasn't textbook, but it was empowering, and healing in a really profound way.

It's powerful stuff, childbirth, however it happens. For good or ill.

''Vaginal delivery of a baby without pain relief is a fabulous human experience! That's why it's important!''

I beg to differ as I don't view any pain as a fabulous experience. Yet, each their own.
I don't judge mothers who yearn for VB. I do not yearn for it, never have.
I simply do not find VB desirable nor important. I expect them not to judge me.
I had EC and it was fabulous.
Fair?

I did get told by a midwife after birth of dc1 if i lived in another country or 100 years ago we wouldn't have survived after a VG delivery with forceps and blood transfusion, didn't make me feel wonderful it has to be said. However it still doesn't detract from my personal wish to have a natural birth (i.e. with as few intereventions as possible) with dc2. however this also doesn't mean that I view anyone who has had a ELCS or EMCS as failing in any anyway, I am terrified of the thought of a CS and admire those who get through it without a panic attack. But the important point is these are my feelings, my experiences and my standards for me, no-one else, and no-one lese has the right to judge these!

I have had one of each.

I'd take a CS every day over a repeat performance of DD1s birth. But at the time I wanted a natural birth etc etc. There was no pain relief, forceps, a bad tear and a pph and even though she came out the exit I hoped for I still felt guilty that she had to be pulled out.

My default position with DD1 was guilt- guilty at her entrance into the world, guilty I couldn't continue breastfeeding beyond 6 weeks, guilty at being emotionally fragile over the whole thing and felt guilty for bursting into tears a lot.

Luckily having DD2 cured me of the guilt complex, a lovely wonderful kiss-everyone-in-theatre elective CS, FF with no guilt, no crying, no emotional fragility. And best of all, no permanent double incontinence, hurrah .

I remember hearing someone saying that being able to bash your head against a brick wall for twelve hours would be an achievement, but would you really want to do it?

I think it was my midwife, lovely woman, because of her I had a great CS experience instead of trying to continue an impossible birth without pain relief.

designerbaby It's powerful stuff, childbirth, however it happens. For good or ill.

^^^^ Totally agree

I thin what people mean is that their vaginal birth was amazing - you can't speak for everyone else

Mine was humiliating, abusive, botched - left me with a diagnosis of PTSD and my DD2 suffering the long term effects (sight loss, hearing loss, MLD)

We CAN only speak for ourselves here

OK. How about we don't

? judge women who had a CS for whatever reason
? judge women who had a CS and were happy about it
? judge women who had a CS and found it really hard to deal with
? judge women who had a VD and were happy about it
? judge women who had a VD and found it really hard to deal with
? judge women who say that their birth experience makes them upset
? judge women who say that their birth experience makes them feel amazing
? tell women that they "ought" to be "grateful" for anything in this regard in a way that dismisses their feelings

Get my drift, OP?

I did a hypnobirthing course and read a lot of Ina May Gaskin prior to the birth of ds. I knew the ins and outs of everything and am fully ashamed to say I was of the opinion that some mothers brought on problems themselves by not being prepared

Pride comes before a fall! I had everything I didn't want; epidural, clip on ds head, constant foetal monitoring and then an emcs.

If I hadn't had help, it's possible me and ds would have died because he was presenting at an odd angle, was big, stuck and distressed.

I thought I would be traumatised, but I'm not. Ds is here, healthy and happy and recovery really wasn't that bad; had DS at 4am, was up for the loo at 9pm and not much pain. My milk was late to come in but I've since found out my PCOS may have also had something to do with that.

From a curiosity point of view, I'd like to know what it feels like to push a baby out but I can live without knowing. And now I'd NEVER judge anyone elses' choices.

I haven't decided whether to VBAC or ELCS next time (if there is a next time). Pros and cons of each.

My mother gave birth to me via cs, and my sister. Before I had kids I never ever understood why people felt a sense of loss at not having a vaginal birth, it seemed nonsensical to me.

Then I had ds1 and after a long labour that seemed to be going brilliantly, I was rushed to theatre for an emergency trial of forceps. He was born by Kielland's forceps and was very stunned with a low Apgar score and he didn't cry for a minute, had to be suctioned and all of that. I almost went into a state of shock and I can't remember any of that night or the following day. Afterwards, I felt intense guilt about "failing" him because I decided it had been because of the epidural (though I have since been told that with his extremely large head and malpositioning it would probably have never ever worked out).

Ds2 is just four months old and I had a completely natural birth with only a few puffs of gas and air at the end. It was very, very healing. I considered cs in the run up to it but I knew I wanted to have the best chance of having a birth I could stand up and walk away from (I had horrible physical trauma after ds1 that really made the first few months incredibly hard, even just walking to the shops ). Although I know that in the end of the day birth is more chance and luck than design, I am so proud of myself for enduring the pain and for having had that experience despite my terror of birth (I was diagnosed with OCD and severe anxiety prior to the birth).

So YABU.

Exactly designerbaby well said x

I totally agree with the OP in that I don't 'get it' either, and that having a healthy baby and healthy mum is all that matters. But I accept that's just the way I am and that for other women, it's a really important and personal issue. However, while I would never seek to minimise anybody else's views, wishes or experiences, I do get royally farked off with people I know who are openly judgey and preachy about other women's choices - especially if they are not of the 'a vaginal birth is the only birth that matters / you must have no intervention at all / never ever ever induce an overdue baby' persuasion.

FWIW - I had an elcs (due to breech presentation) with DC1 and am scheduled to have another elcs (initially due to preference, but we've subsequently discovered this baby is breech too) next week. I don't feel less of a woman because of this. And I certainly don't feel any less of a mother. Indeed, I'd hope that when I'm on my deathbed, people will judge my success as a mother on whether I've raised a kind, decent human being, rather than how he or she exited my body.

liketochat1, I used to hear all that stuff about the importance of vaginal birth and thought, well, I'm never going to get it because a) I have a chromosomal abnormality that makes it difficult to have kids and b) after 5 years of messing about, when I did conceive a healthy child, it was actually two (via IVF) so a c-section looked really likely.
In fact I had a vaginal birth - not the NCT ideal no pain relief sitting on a bouncy ball type though. They came early, my waters broke more than 24h before delivery, the first one was back to back, the second one (being a twin) needed to be induced, I had pethidine, an epidural and then a full spinal block because they were both delivered ventouse and I was prepped for a c-section after my temperature hit the roof as I went into active stage. There were like 15 people in the operating theatre!
So... maybe I missed out on the "spiritual" aspect of the experience. I didn't really mind to be honest - afterwards I was grateful that I didn't have to recover from a c-section while looking after twins but that's all really. The no pain relief stuff just seemed waaaay too far for me. I got to 4cm dilated and I was like "epidural now! now!" I met the anaesthetist a couple of days after and I was like "I am SOOOO grateful that you managed to get that epidural in in 4 minutes!"

I also wish that there would be some acknowledgement on threads like this, that while most women having a planned c-s are getting optimal care (ie, there are enough staff and nothing is happening to obstruct the successful completion of surgery) many, many women in UK hospital are getting sub-optimal care (in particular the lack of one to one care in labour), and are having things done to them that make labour more painful and more difficult to bear, and sometimes positively obstruct the successful completion of labour of the act.

Very few women in the UK will have optimal conditions for giving birth, which would include:

• knowing and trusting the person who was to see them through labour and deliver their baby
• having kind and expert care the whole time in labour, including in the early stages of labour if they felt they needed it
• having freedom of movement and encouragement and support to assist the normal physiological process
• having access to a birth pool if they want one
• not having avoidable inductions and augmentation.

No wonder so many people find labour unbearable. Even in optimal conditions it's usually very, very tough. Let alone when loads of barriers to a normal birth are put in your way, as they are in UK hospitals day in, day out.

Queen Who's saying that VB makes you a better mother?

The thread is about how women cope with their feelings about their birth experience. These can be positive or negative, regardless of the method of delivery. For some, not getting a VB leaves them feeling bereft and cheated.

You don't want your 'bits and pieces' torn to bits by forceps because you like your body, but you'd be more than happy to have a scalpel slice through layers of skin, fat and your uterine muscle? Okay...that makes total sense.

YY designerbaby.

My friend who had a similar birth to me chose an elective cs and that was the right decision for her and I would support it 100%. It is really very deeply personal.

"'a vaginal birth is the only birth that matters / you must have no intervention at all / never ever ever induce an overdue baby' persuasion."

Ok, the mythical 'birth nazi' appears.

She's friends with the nipple nazi you know. The one who says that everyone 'must' breastfeed. That formula feeding is evil.

I've been muddling about on the fringes of the natural birth movement for a decade now, and I've never met anyone who says that vaginal birth is the only birth which 'matters'. Or that people shouldn't have intervention EVEN IF THEY NEED IT TO HAVE A HEALTHY BIRTH, or that induction is never appropriate.

Am I just not mixing with the right people or something?

Shagmund just wanted to say yes, yes, yes, to everything you've posted above...

When I found out about DD I was initially told C section all the way (I have complex mobility problems). Then a consultant thought a vaginal delivery would work, and we ended up planning (ha!) for a waterbirth. In the end it was somewhere in between. I don't feel in the slightest bit guilty, I don't regret anything at all. I never thought I would be able to have DD at all and frankly can't thank the midwives and doctors enough for making it happen.

BUT if anyone has a different experience, it's sad, but their right to feel however they want.

Whats important is that you have a well mum and baby at the end of it - not so much how you get there. Having said that I had 2 VB's and wouldn't choose a section partly cos I really wanted a VB (and had my 2nd at home in a pool which was brilliant) and partly cos I'm terrified of going under the knife - but if it had come to it i'd have done anything to have my babies safely.

I had 3 c sections - was planning home birth for first one - doesn't bother me one bit - but as someone said above, everyone is different x

My first was an emergency section and rightly so, however I did feel I'd missed out on something. It wasn't a huge issue but it did niggle at the back of my mind.
Number 2 was a VBAC and only just - I was being prepped for another section and I was thrilled that I did have a vaginal birth, I think there was sense of achievement for me - I'd given birth it was a forceps delivery and I think my contribution was probably minimal anyway I'm glad it happened.
However, had I had a third child it would have been by elective section. Once was good enough for me

I have to leave this thread now as I have some stuff to attend to...but wanted to say

yes, yes, yes, and yes to what designerbaby and shagmund just shared

and of course MrsJay also as usual contributing her great views