To not get why a vaginal birth is so important to some people?

[Liketochat1]

Some mothers talk of the trauma and disappointment of not giving birth vaginally. Some say they don't feel like a proper woman or that their body failed them. For many this sounds very traumatic, for others moaning.
AIBU to not 'get' why this is so important to them? I've had 2 c sections and was only intensely grateful that I live in a country and in an age where there are gifted surgeons and resources available to perform these life saving operations. In other parts of the world women are dying in childbirth as they don't have access to these.
Am I so unreasonable to think this?

I still feel pain from two (unremarkable) C-sections 12 years later. I think any sort of surgical operation has an effect on you pyschologically, however indispensable or life saving. Someone has actually cut you open with a knife, whatever you dress it up as, and that has an long lasting trauma all of its own.

I remember the struggles I had trying to care for my babies, sit up in bed, the intense indignity of the baby just being removed from you without warning (I meant the baby got no warning) There is more to it than wanting a natural birth for reasons of pride. It is the difference between what your body was meant to do, and what was inflicted on it.

Saying that, I would never trade the C-sections for an moment's uncertainty about the health of my babies. Ds2 does have mild ASD though and Dd had reflux; I sometimes wonder whether they were both born too early due to surgeon's desire to safely deliver them (twin protocol) at 38 weeks by C-section, as the preferred birth method, rather than wait for labour when they were "ready" which might have indeed been 40 weeks plus.

bonsoir what I would like to say will get me banned so

Bonsoir I can totally imagine it to be this wonderful experience, but I simply don't care how mothers OUGHT to do or experience something it is totally irrelevant.

I care about myself, my attitudes, my body, my pregnancy and our health.
And my c-section was wonderful and I will never be able to imagine how others feel regardless what the experience is about.

"
However, I think society does put pressure on people to have as few interventions as physically possible"

i think the opposite.

i think people are very judgy of anyone who takes a minimal-interventionist stance - you will hear a chorus of 'doctor knows best' if you question current medical thinking/practice (Off MN that is)

the op can understand or not understand anything she feels fit, so INBU in that respect, however taking the 'only thing that matters is a live mother and babY' line is a great way of poo-pooing other peoples birth experiences - experiences they may feel very deeply about.

YANBU

I live in Ireland where you can't request an elcs so I went private knowing that with a wink and a nod I would get my section. I really didn't want to give birth.

The consultant tried to induce me at 39 weeks which failed thank God. So I was given a CS due to 'failure to progress'. I was delighted. The reason given for Induction of Labour was maternal age which was totally spurious. The consultant was going golfing the following week and I was done being pregnant.

The recovery is no joke but I prefer the control a CS gives so that was a trade off I was willing to accept. The scar is tiny and because I was induced at 39 weeks I didn't get those last minute stretch marks. Vain I know but I am vain.

Even before I had a section I hated all the ego attached to giving birth. I call it the Womens Olympics, some seem to expect a gold medal the more suffering they went through! I'm as shallow as a puddle and have no problem admitting it!

My friend's episiotomy ruptured. Twice.

Sounds fucking awesome. What a fabulous human experience!

What was wrong with what Bonsoir said? [hconfused]

Bonsoir is right. It is a wonderful experience.

But then so is going to Disney World in Florida for your holidays.

Having a vaginal delivery is not so important that it actually means anything long term. It's a nice to have, not an essential.

38 weeks for twins is great isn't it, especially since from 38 weeks on it is not considered an early delivery as far as I remember.

Yanbu. My EMCS and planned CS were fine. I know I've got away from childbirth unscathed compared to many women, even the scar has almost faded.

I do feel for women who think they have missed out on an experience though. But there isn't an scrap of my being that ever wanted a 'natural' birth after my first CS, better the devil you know IMHO.

YABU OP. It is their birth not yours and they can feel how they wish about it. None of your business really and I wouldn't imagine the women in question care if you 'get it' or not.

OP, completely agree. However, each their own and if some are determined to feel bad/guilty/whatever, let them.

Yes, I agree with the poster, that it doesn't matter if OP gets it or not. It is their experience as much mine is mine.
So no breaking head over why some women think it is soooooo important. Their life, their pregnancy, their body and their birth experience.

"and I will never be able to imagine how others feel regardless what the experience is about".

I can imagine the excitement of waking up the day you know your baby is going to be born by c-section. The emotions of anticipation, fear, longing as you wait to go into surgery. The kindness and happiness of the staff who are witness to the happy event. The thrill of meeting your baby.

Can you really not imagine the feeling of going on a journey in labour, unsure of how it will end? The moments of laughter, boredom, excitement, weariness, desperation, fear, energy, determination, and feelings of triumph and incredible, blessed relief as you push your baby out? The amazing sense of 'I can't believe I've done that!' and the feelings of intense oxytocin and endorphin fuelled euphoria that can come after a hormonally normal experience of birth?

Come on - try!

badtime my apologies. I think you just hit a raw nerve for me, but it may well be that what I thought you were saying is probably not what you're actually saying. IYSWIM.

I read what you were saying in the light of this:

"Someone close to me (although not any more, unsurprisingly) said that very thing to me when I was deep in the grips of devastating PND. "You ought to be grateful you're not living in Africa. At least you both survived and you have a lovely, healthy baby. You have nothing to be depressed about." "

But I think we're possibly having a parallel conversation... One about the issue, and one about our ability to debate the issue.

Scrap over?

To the original point, I just don't think anyone has a right to judge anyone on how they feel about their birth.

In other words:

OP YABVVVU.

Maybe I just should have left it at that.

db
xx

"Having a vaginal delivery is not so important that it actually means anything long term. It's a nice to have, not an essential"

No. It's not 'nice'. It's fucking excruciating. But the experience can be positively life changing in a good way. It was for me. Obviously I wouldn't swap my baby's health for it, but all things being equal, it was an incredibly important experience for me psychologically. I know other people who feel the same.

You are being a little bit unreasonable to brush off other women's feelings about childbirth.

Ultimately the woman and infant's health is the most important thing of course but that doesn't mean that a woman shouldn't feel some sadness if she doesn't get the vaginal birth she hoped for.

For me personally, I felt a failure because I couldn't conceive naturally, so giving birth vaginally was something that felt like a triumph and proof that my body did work. The same went for breastfeeding - I needed evidence that my body wasn't totally biologically messed up.

A caesaerean section is of course major abdominal surgery which comes with risks, so I would imagine that most women would prefer to avoid having one if possible. If a c-section is necessary then people deal with it in different ways. Some, like yourself OP, that are just incredibly grateful and relieved that surgeons are able to deliver your healthy baby, but others could have been through arduous and horrendous labours that ended in them lying defeated on an operating table wondering why their body couldn't do the thing it was designed to do. It hardly seems fair to regard those women's feelings as invalid.

I loved the sudden overwhelming urge to push, mainly, because I'd been 36 hours in agony, and I knew the end was nigh. I was young with strong stomach muscles, and I pushed with all my might until black in my head with lack of oxygen, when I took the deepest and quickest breath I could to continue my quest to push baby out. Amazingly for me, after the third (painless) mighty push, the midwife shouted at me " look", and I stopped to see my baby's face emerge as had birthed flat on her back ( which had caused the agonising pain). One more push and she was out. But still remembering the 36 hours of agony, I would have much prefered an epidural or even c-section during that time.

My niece pops 10lb babies out like peas, with no pain medication in 4 hours. Her last was delivered at home in a birthing pool.

Shagmund you are so spot-on with your description of my experience and feelings. How did you know ????? Where you there????

No, I cannot imagine what others go through or have gone through. I am sorry.

I'm with you op. personally I would prefer a c section & am not afraid to admit it. That ain't an option (well a planned one isnt) as I am having a totally normal pregnancy so far - don't get me wrong I'm pleased about that!

I don't get the idea that a VB makes you a better mother. What child in the whole world ever wants to know or in fact, isn't completely grossed out by the story of their birth, and would then judge their mother?! .

I don't want my bits & pieces to be torn by forceps etc. It's my body & I like it. I don't get the 'sense of achievement' thing for no pain relief.In my head it's akin to opting for no anaesthetic for a tooth removal - admirable but slightly hard to understand.

I like to

I was under psychiatric care because I felt like such a failure because I didn't have the "fabulous human experience". I didn't know how I could face my ante natal friends as I was the only one with an CS. They didn't give a toss, which is as it should be, but I've had to work incredibly hard to forgive myself for not having the birth I wanted. Comments such as bonsoir's cut me to the bone.

...yeah, I need to leave this thread now.

I have to add, I had my daughter in a country where you cannot elect a c-section.

I'm sure it is wonderful Bonsoir, and aren't you lucky to have had it.

There are lots of wonderful human experiences that many of us won't be lucky enough to have. Some people might feel climbing Mount Everest is a wonderful human experience.

I have yet to meet a mountaineer who looks down on those who haven't managed to reach those peaks.

But I meet lots of women who look down on others who haven't managed to have a birth without pain relief. My opinion of those women is that they are arrogant and smug, and expressing their superiority to the detriment of other women who aren't so lucky is unforgivable.

Not saying you are doing that of course, but if you were it would be unforgivable .