To not get why a vaginal birth is so important to some people?

[Liketochat1]

Some mothers talk of the trauma and disappointment of not giving birth vaginally. Some say they don't feel like a proper woman or that their body failed them. For many this sounds very traumatic, for others moaning.
AIBU to not 'get' why this is so important to them? I've had 2 c sections and was only intensely grateful that I live in a country and in an age where there are gifted surgeons and resources available to perform these life saving operations. In other parts of the world women are dying in childbirth as they don't have access to these.
Am I so unreasonable to think this?

I wasn't disappointed that I had to have a c section, didn't care that baby had to be born that way. I was just traumatised by the urgency of being rushed to theater and not seeing my baby for hours after wards. I would welcome a c section if I were to have a planned one, as the thought of something going very wrong in labour scares me. This is despite having a vaginal birth with DS1

I think yab a bit u, I had a natural birth and I think I would have been very upset had I not. There was just something about pushing and seeing ds head for the first time that will stay with me forever. There was also something about having an easy birth that made me feel like I am actually good at something in a world where I'm pretty crap at most things, I do realise how ridiculous and bordering on offensive that is, but it's just how I feel and I'd be lying if I said I felt otherwise.

Now I gave up on breastfeeding after a week, and still regret that a lot, even though ds is a happy healthy 4 year old I feel a failure and always wish I'd tried harder. These things are just very personal to the individual, all of those early days, pregnancy, birth, feeding, we just want to get it all right and for it to be all 'perfect', our version of perfect.

cherrytomatoes I didn't recover well after vaginal birth. I couldn't walk more than a few steps for a few weeks afterwards as my legs kept shaking. I think it was down to the epidural. CS was just as bad as I had general anaesthetic.

I have to admit am rather [henvy] at people who are up and about the same day.

I didn't have a massively positive birth story for DS - induction that went on and on, epidural that fell out, ending up with an emcs.

But I'd had lots of IVF and been through 2 ectopics and getting both my tubes out, and a miscarriage. Frankly, if I'd had to push DS out through my nose while whistling God Save the Queen I'd still have been so overwhelmingly pleased to have him here and healthy it wouldn't have mattered!

After my first emergency c section and then failing to bf I felt a complete and utter failure. My mum reminded me that I had a healthy baby at the end of it and that reality helped. I have had 2 further sections by choice ( baby size, particularly the head was reason enough for me) and feel more positive about but still feel I woulD have liked the experience of a 'natural' birth. Yabu to not realise that everyone has their own 'ideals' and is quite alright to feel disappointed when things do not go to plan. Some people are not bothered, others are, it doesn't mean we are not grateful for what we have.

Having had two boys, one by vaginal birth and one emergency section, I can only say BOTH SUCKED!

Wish childbirth was easier for me and I did feel a failure for a little while but hey ho have two beautiful children and not planning on any more as childbirth in general scares me.

YANBU
You do not seem to be judging or criticising people who have different views to yourself. It would BU to say they were wrong to have different views to you.

People have a lot a reasons for wanting a particular experience, and for some people it will probably be difficult to really understand motivations very different from their own.

However, I think society does put pressure on people to have as few interventions as physically possible. The idea of 'too posh to push' for example, is very critical of people who, for whatever reason (which may include MH problems, such as PTSD), have an elective caesarian. I think there can also be an element of competitiveness, where people don't feel that they measure up to others who had a more natural birth experience.

I had problems bf first DC after VB so not always down to delivery. Beforehand I was scared of VB and was happy with any intervention possible. Didn't need anything in the end and really enjoyed the experience but second time was very painful as DC with back the wrong way and had to be twisted just before delivery so was told would never have VB again and should not have been allowed to continue. The one benefit though is the recovery afterwards and with the second DC wanted to be able to pick older one up and drive straight away so that was my primary concern. If you can avoid an op it is easier but sometimes not always possible.

Surely the main object is to get the baby out with as little stress and upset to the mother and child as possible? After months of carrying a baby around I'd have been quite open to the Alien delivery method.

Agree with this ^^^

I had a c-section...it was a wonderful birth experience, for me, for my ex-h, for the medical team, and I saw my child, held her right after she came out, saw the testing and could hold her for another while and then she went up with nurse/midwife and her Dad for more testing, washing, dressing etc. while I was taken care off.
1 hour later we were all together....it was wonderful

She was born week 36 after a wonderful problem and stress-free pregnancy within one day things changed and I was sent to hospital to be watched and kept there as long as possible, but this lasted 2 days and she had to be delivered via c-section as it was last minute and she would have died in the womb...
And she was born Sunday evening and we went home Wednesday morning and Friday we left to visit my parents over the weekend in a different city, all with the permission and extra check-ups from the doctors...it ended all well and I was not brainwashed into there is only ONE RIGHT way of how to bring children to this world.

I felt like a fantastic woman and mother and so did her Dad.

This was a real birth, and I BF no problems at all, if this even matters.

If I know one thing, it is stay as far as possible away from all the parent and mother bullshit talking as possible.
These years are way too precious to have others make you feel terrible about your doings and your ways.

I was gutted about needing an emcs - not that I felt less womanly or anything but because I'm a practical, no fuss type of person and I felt lik eI'd prepped myself for a normal delivery - had faith that my body could do it and just wanted to 'get it out of the way'.

The emcs was definitely the only option for me and ds (prem + breech + cord notch + he's shrunk from previous scan + my blood pressure was ridiculously high and I was at risk of a stroke / heart attack) but I hated the fact that the 'control' was taken away from me.

I also had to deal with comments afterwards from people saying 'oh, I bet you're glad you avoided the horror of labour and took the easy option' mainly my usually lovely Mum

Although I had a good recovery (no infections etc) travelling to scbu every day after my discharge with a fresh op scar then sleeping in a hospital ward on a z bed when LO was readmitted for 3 weeks wasn't easy.

I think that because they are more common now people seem to think it's 'just' a c-section. It's major surgery which needs recovering from!

Grrr - didn't mean that to turn into a rant!!

There's so many emotional issues surrounding birth it's impossible to say what's best for an individual.

Personally I saw birth the same as getting pregnant- I wanted to do it the easiest safest way that actually worked. I tried getting pregnant naturally and it didn't work, tried IUI it didn't work so had IVF which did work. I planned the same for birth- try the least interventionist way but prepared to try other ways if I had to. Had a home birth with G&A.

I think YUB a bit U - just because you're completely happy with having had a CS doesn't mean every woman should be too. Though, for what it's worth I had an emergency CS under a general a month ago, and I am also a bit U and don't really get it either.

On the other hand, before giving birth I hadn't even contemplated a CS. I was looking forward to experiencing vaginal birth, and seeing what my body could do. In the end events overtook us and the surgeons stepped in, and my only reaction has been gratitude that my baby and I came out of the experience unscathed. Yes, I had a slight infection in my stitches, but so have many friends who experienced vaginal birth. And in a much more sensitive location . The birth part of things seems so very unimportant now - maybe that's why I also (slightly unreasonably!) can't understand why women are so upset by it.

Oh, and for what it's worth, breast-feeding has been a doddle. Kid latched as soon as I emerged from theatre and has been feeding brilliantly since. Out of the 7 women in my NCT group 4 have needed to supplement feeding with formula and they were all vaginal births. Ok, so that's an extremely small sample, but a CS doesn't have to mean problems with breast-feeding.

Oh, and I think this question is the very definition of a 'first world problem' - it is only because of the high level of medical care and low infant mortality rate that we can have the luxury of this debate.

That is not to say it isn't very important to individuals, just that I agree we should appreciate how lucky we are to have (for the most part) the choice.

(I know that reads as really patronising - I don't mean it to sound like that. You know what I mean)

Mrs Jay

luxury of fretting

I don't think psychological distress following a difficult birth experience ought to be seen as either a luxury or dismissed as fretting. Whether that is a CS or other difficult circumstances.

It's not really about CS vs vaginal. It's about the fact that childbirth is a deeply emotional and psychological experience, as well as a physical one, and can have far reaching consequences.

And people deal with it differently, as with all trauma. Some people can just carry on regardless, some people are utterly devastated by the same set of circumstances. It has more to do with whatever else is going on with them, and their psychololgical make up. Those who struggle with things you have found easier to deal with should have your sympathy not your judgement.

FWIW, my first birth was long, and traumatic. It didn't result in a CS, but in a forceps delivery and a lot of carnage.

Am I grateful that I and DD1 are still alive? Of course. Am I grateful that I live in a first world country with access to medical help which enabled us both to survive? Yes. Was I aware of these things at the time? Yes again.

Did this knowledge stop me from being severely traumatised and depressed about what happened to me and DD1? No. Did it stop me from having PND and PTSD? No.

Do I deserve to be both judged and dismissed by you, OP, as a 'moaner' because of this?

No, I don't think so.

So maybe take the judgey pants off, try to understand that some people find some things harder to deal with than you do, and feel grateful that you feel so positive about your birth experiences.

Cross-making thread.

db
xx

YANBU; but then i just envy any mother right now; i think they're lucky to have a baby; & it's irrelevant how it arrives - they're just lucky to have given birth (or even adopted a child).

So I'm probably BU to some people there myself.

I understand why some women want a natural birth and some want sections. I even understand why they might feel "cheated" out of the birth they had planned. But I can not understand why anyone would feel like a "failure" having produced a beautiful baby at the end of whichever they had.

I had an emergency section first time and an elective the second. After 15 years of ttc I didn't care about how I had a baby, just that I had one.

OOPs wrong words sorry didn't mean to offend I am not dismissing birth trauma at all but birth trauma is birth trauma all women all over the world can and do suffer just we can get help and recover properly some women can't .

I had a c section and my milk came in right on time and there was plenty of it. I expressed concerns about breast feeding after a c section prior to the birth and the midwife told me that the removal of the placenta is what triggers the process of the milk coming in, rather than a vaginal birth.

I felt slightly like that after DD1 was born by EMCS, but at the same time was secretly relieved when they told me that I would have to have one as it wasn't going well naturally.

When it came to DD2, I opted for an elective CS and still cannot understand why some women are so keen to try for a vaginal birth.

Having never given birth vaginally, I suppose I won't ever know how it feels (no plans for any more DC), but it doesn't bother me.

For me wanting a vaginal birth was so that I could feel I really achieved something. I felt every single pain as my pain relief failed and despite remembering it vividly, I'd do it again. I tore and needed stitches, but I'd still do it again. I hopped off the table and had a shower after being stitched up, you can't do that after a CS.

I didn't want a scar, I didn't want to be laid up for ages, I didn't want the higher risk of infection, I didn't want to be cut open. That's why a vaginal birth was so important to me.

removal of the placenta is what triggers the process of the milk coming in, rather than a vaginal birth

Exactly.

First world problem? Gees.

Most of our problems are 'first world 'problems. In fact, almost everyone on the first world has NO RIGHT to be depressed or traumatised about anything which doesn't involve the death of a loved one or the imminent threat of starvation.

Right?

Wrong.

Mental health problems are universal. The triggers are different, perhaps, but no-one has less 'right' to struggle, mentally, because they have enough food, somewhere to live, and access to medical help.

I speak as someone who has spent a fair amount of time in third world countries, so I don't take their plight lightly, or minimise it.

But I also speak as someone who has suffered MH issues too. And that attitude just makes me hopping .

There are a couple of things I always find difficult when people get judgy about others women's feelings aurrounding birth:

A) They are other people's feelings. That is what they feel. You don't have to agree, or even be able to see it from where they're standing. But do acknowlege that that person feels that way. It is very, very unlikely that some one is discussing their disappointment/trauma about what happened to them in labour/birthing for a "moan".

B) The notion that there are scores of women in this country who give not a hoot about their baby's wellbeing and health, are uninterested in whether they end up alive/with an alive child and are solely gunning for a spa experience has to be a phallacy. I have not yet met a mother who got pregnant for the birth experience. Is it not possible that some women's feelings around birth and preference for one sort of birth over another is exactly because they do care about the outcome? I think you'd have to go a long way to find a mother who doesn't appreciate the healthcare and privilige we experience here.

I had hoped for a water birth with my 1st child. Unfortunately, there was meconium so that went out the window. Than he became distressed and I was rushed to theatre for a crash section under GA. I was deeply affected by this.
However, it wasn't really the fact I had a section but the circumstances surrounding it and the whole Ga thing. DS was born with a apgar of 1 so it was really touch and go. Fortunately their prompt action meant he is healthy today and didn't even need neotatal care.
I really felt cheated out of the first few hours of his life. Sounds mad I know.
My next delivery was a failed VBAC. Much better as was awake and the 3rd a lovely elective csection.
However, yes I would have preferred a natural delivery for the easier recovery. Not being able to drive is really tough trying to look after 2 children and a newborn on you own.
Plus breastfeeding was sucessful 2nd and 3rd time round.