to pretend that state school is not so bad...

[RichTeas]

We are in an area with no shortage of preps and indies; the state schools are not bad, but for us, definitely not the preferred option. Yet it looks like it's going to be state all the way through. So far DS (Y3) doesn't have any idea of the types of schools that exist, as we have never openly discussed it, but I expect soon he will be clued up enough to question the system he finds himself in. It feels disingenuous to fib that we're happy with just a state education (when we're not), yet we don't want him to grow up feeling he's missed out by over-egging the independents. I suppose it could be worse, he could be in private and then forced to come out, but the issues is the same I wonder how others explain this kind of mismatch...

I have had some good advice from a handful of people on this thread, so I think I will leave it at that. It's a shame that some people get offended so easily and can't entertain points of view that are different from their own.

Bursary?? Or has that been discussed and eliminated?

Dilema was "how to explain going system A when, without a doubt, we prefer (but can't afford) system B". Topic was not should we go state/private, which is better, etc?? Topic was hijacked!

You explain [if he asks] why he won't be going to the fee paying school by telling the truth; that you can't afford it and it's as simple as that.

Rich tea, I would have thoight it was very easy to tell your ds, yes we might have done that but we couldn't afford it.

I think we are.sticking with the state.system despite being able to afford private. I think I will have a harder time. Yes we could have afforded it, but thought it was a complete waste of money and would rather go on 2 foreign holidays a year and save for university

RichTeas you say to your DC you would have liked him to go to a private school but you can't afford it. Why is it difficult to say that. The DC go to a state primary and may or may not go to a private secondary. It will depend on our financial circs at the time and what is right for them.

Alternatively don't say anything at all, I don't really see why you would feel the need to explain.

wHY DO YOU NEED TO EXPALIN TO THE CHILDREN THAT THEY ARE AT A SCHOOL YOU CHOSE OR NOW I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND FWIW WE WERE LOOKING INTO A PRIVATE SECONDARY FOR DD1 BUT COULDNT AFFORD IT, SO GLAD SHE DIDNT GO BECAUSE SHE CHANGED HER CAREER CHOICE, BUT REALLY DO YOU FEEL YOU HAVE LET YOUR CHILDREN DOWN COS YOU HAVN'T

oops my caps locked

For what it's worth I went to a small independent school as did my brother and sister. We all got scholarships otherwise my parents would have found it impossible to fund the fees, as it was they still had to make a contribution each term. However what they had completely underestimated was all the add-on costs of a private education. We couldn't have music lessons for example, which my sister and I desperately wanted, we couldn't go on the fancy school trips to California and Val d'Isere, we couldn't even have new school uniform - I had the same PE shirt from Y7 to Y11 ( it was obscene) and my sister had to wear her sweater in June because the buttons on her school summer dress would not do up. It also made it very difficult to "keep up" with friends who all had monthly clothing allowances and cars for their birthdays. I made many very good friends, several of whom I am still in contact with today 20 years on but sometimes it was very hard to be the "poor kid". Did I get a brilliant education ? Well I got AACD at A level so I did OK but not exceptionally. I went to a Russell group uni and got a 2i in a degree I don't really use. I wanted to apply for Oxford but the school refused to let me take the exams becasue if I didn't get in then their stats would look bad. I probably wouldn't have made it but it would have been nice to have had the option. By contrast my brother ( at the same school) was massively pushed to apply but refused because he knew it wasn't him.

My 8 year old daughter and I have had many frank discussions about state versus private education. She is incredibly bright and would do well at a private school I think; but then she is doing very well at her state primary and we can afford for her to have the music lessons that she loves, we go on family holidays abroad that all our children benefit from and they always have school uniform that fits! We would not be able to do any of those things if we educated just one of our children privately and they all know and appreciate this. As a result of our discussions they know that they are very fortunate to live in a country which provides its children with a free education to age 18. They are shocked that children in many developing countries have to pay to go to school.

So OP I think you can make an excellent case for state education to your son, encourage him to count his blessings and make him realise how fortunate he is compared to many children both in this country and overseas. The grass is not always greener.

Thank you for sharing your story Posh. It's very honest, and, 20 years on, I even feel a bit sad for your poor sister not being able to wear a summer dress without a sweater. It's interesting that you have already had these discussions with your 8 y.o. (when so few of us intend to) and that you have found the right balance.

Its the parents that make a difference to a child's education/life not which school system they attend. If you as a parent have a vested interest in your child he or she will do well.

I don't understand what the issue is with discussing it? My 6 year old DD2 understands what private school is, she understands that we can afford to send her and that there is the possibility that she would get a better academic education if she went.

But she also knows that Mummy and Daddy won't send her because we don't believe in them and think that if she is truly clever she will do better anywhere. I think, although its a bit hard to tell on this one that she understands we believe that state school will give her more of a life education.

I think you're asking quite a lot of a 6 year old there Scary - I'd keep it a bit more simple myself however bright my child was. Something along the lines of Mummy and Daddy think this school would be the best one for you because ....

We are applying for secondary schools for DS this week. He understands he is likely to get a place at the school his sister is at, and we visited the 3 schools which are likely to be on his preference list. I talked with him about which ones to put second and third but he was happy for us to make the decision really partly because he knows they are insurance choices, but partly too because he trusts us. I think there are hints here of people giving their children too much responsibility and too much to worry about at too early an age.

RichTeas Wed 24-Oct-12 13:40:38
Dilema was "how to explain going system A when, without a doubt, we prefer (but can't afford) system B".

Is it any harder than explaining why you can't afford holidays in the Seychelles, a 6 bedroom house or any other thing that you might prefer having to not having? Do children really need to believe that they can have absolutely everything they would like? Isn't the truth that most of us don't get everything we want in life and that how we learn (from our parents) to handle disappointment is a massive part of how our life coping skills?

For what it's worth OP, I know quite a few folk in your position.

Folk who had a very middle class upbringing, went to private school themselves and did well. But they went into careers that simply don't pay enough (media/publishing/the arts) to sustain the lifestyle they had for their DC. Especially if they want to remain in London, whihc many do.

Schools often times seems to be the Really Big Issue for many of them and they deal with it differently.

There are those who go on the offensive and tell you at any opportunity how a bright child will do well anywhere. How private schools are over rated. How their local school is so wonderfully mixed. They of course take up their parents' offer to pay fees if it's forthcoming.

There are those who spend their time wringing their hands. They find every opportunity to find fault and hark back to their own private school days. They weigh up moving out of London to grammar areas and often do this even though they hate living outside London.

And there are those who just get on with it. It is what it is. I figure they're the happpiest.

Life education? Are you planning to apply to 'university of life'? Seriously, why is it ok to say you don't believe in private education? I would never tell a parent with a child in a state school that I don't believe in state schools, sounds rude and patronising to me.

Saying you don't believe in private schools is all right, it's a political position. It might not win you many friends among people who use private schools though. (I'm not sure there is anyone who doesn't believe in state schools, is there?) Saying all private schools were crap would be rude, and wrong, just as it is rude and ignorant to say all state schools are crap.

When my eldest was about 10 she asked out of curiosity why she attended the village school rather than the prep, I told her if we paid fees we would not be able to afford the annual sking trip as well as a summer holiday, the ponies upkeep and nice cars. That answer seemed to satisfy her. She managed to get to York and take a degree in art history despite her early years in state education. She even speaks with a naice accent.
You are making an issue out of nothing OP.

My dd asked me too, when one of her friends left the state primary to go to the local prep, aged about 6.
I told her I liked her school, it was handy for home, we couldn't afford the fees for the prep and I didn't want to have to iron the shirts.
I also told her she would have more homework at the prep and she decided she was better off where she was.

It will be harder at secondary level because I quite like the private school and she'd be old enough to iron her own shirts but I think I'll just be honest and assure her we'll be doing everything we can to make sure she doesn't miss out on learning interesting things. The local comprehensive is a bit limited in the languages it offers, and dd loves languages, but that's something it's easy to supplement.

I like the suggestion earlier of putting it in the context of a world where some children in poorer countries don't get to go to school at all.

I don't understand what my post has to do with diversity Everlong?

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying I don't believe in private education. I feel its wrong and thats something I want to pass on to my children so I can't see why on earth it wouldn't be ok for me to say that to my child.

DD2 is aware that some children she knows go to schools which are different (longer holidays etc), she pointed this out, I explained they go to fee paying schools. So of course I get "why don't I go to that kind of school", simple explanation about how I don't believe in them and yes we're lucky enough to afford it but I wouldn't send any of my children to a private school ever.

If it wasn't clear I'm not using the exact phrases I use on mn to my 6 year old because, well, if I did I don't think she would have much understanding and if i posted the way I spoke to my 6 year old that would be the longest, most over simplified post, ever.

All I was trying to say is that I don't think OP's DS will struggle with the concept of this is what we would prefer but we can't afford it, so you will go where you go.

usual it wasn't until I came on MN that I discovered all of this. It just wasn't on my radar. I find it all a bit confusing and sad. These threads always end up like this going round in circles and everyone exploding with defensiveness and justification. I have certainly never had a conversation about it in RL.