"There's nothing to eat in this house!" - DS17 complains

[flow4]

Apparently there is "nothing to eat" and I am "vindicktive" because I won't give DS(17) money for a kebab and I'm "leaving him with no T and in a foul mood". (The swearing and nasty verbal abuse he's given me are evidence of that ).

We have in our cupboards/freezer, right now: pasta (spaghetti, fusilli and macaroni), rice, bread, flour, cereal (tho no milk cos he drank it all), pizza bases, eggs, cheese, tins of beans and tomatoes, veg sausages, veg burgers, onions, courgettes, mushrooms, toms, apples, pears, tinned tuna and sardines... Not to mention the nuts, lentils, chickpeas, etc... And more...

Oh, and I did make tea - a veg/tofu stir-fry with rice - and saved him some although he wasn't home, which he has now eaten...

But he "wants to eat something that doesn't look like it comes out of a rabbit's arse" (i.e. veggie food=rabbit droppings)

He wanted a kebab, bacon, crisps, biscuits, a ready meal... Something junky, basically.

I didn't want to buy him a kebab partly because we have plenty of food in, partly because I think junk food is a waste of money, but largely because he was being rude.

I think he's being unreasonable, probably because he's hungry... But am I also BU not to buy him a kebab? And more generally, AIBU -

• to expect him to make himself something out of what we have in the cupboards?
• not to keep a constant supply of snacks/junk food in the house?
• to expect him to be polite when he asks me for money, even if he's hungry?

flow4 - it took until your post at 19:40:47 to finally reveal this rather crucial information.

"... if I gave him an extra £20/week, he would without a shadow of a doubt spend it on alcohol and junk food and (probably) skunk instead."

Most people on the thread have been focussing on what he did and saying it is unreasonable. I agree. However, me and *mathanxiety and a few others have been trying to figure out why your otherwise loving son did this to you.

The issue of drugs and alcohol is obviously something you are well aware of and is the primary one here to deal with and the issue of food is the secondary one although it may be the 'blowup' you did have has revealed a general low level simmering disatisfaction with his diet.

The thread would have gone in a totally different direction if you had revealed the drugs and alcohol issue earlier. As it happens my sister had exactly this problem with my niece starting around 15/16 of staying out late, bunking off school, abusive, demanding money, and eventually becoming violent and stealing from her. My sister also had a strong suspicion about 'skunk' and alcohol although never actually got positive proof.

In the end my sistyer called in social services and my niece moved out of the family home into a half-way house for troubled teens but still visited home for food and do washing etc. The abuse, violence and theft stopped and eventually my niece went to college, set up her own home and her relationship with her mother (my sister) is now good again. I strongly urge you to get professional help early before this spirals.

mathanxiety - I agree totally with your post at 01:31:23 both on the drugs, alcohol and food control issue.

MoreBeta I don't think you could sound any more smug, rude and patronising if you tried.

The OP hasn't asked for your (or anybody else's) advice on parenting techniques.

And I see nobody who has insisted men "need" meat provide any actual evidence beyond their own opinion.

Or it may have been that the op was being flippant. I got drunk when I was 17 and smoked weed (not skunk) too. Still didn't talk to my mother like that though.

Flwo4 - you left out the important bits. And the discussion veered off into irrelevancies such as do men need or do they not need meat? I think it might be worth reposting with the core problem. This is not about a kebab. Good luck.

There is no info from the OP that her DS does actually take skunk. All she has said is that if he had more money he would "(probably)" spend some of it on skunk.
It's a bit of a jump from that to getting him professional help.

My lads have never and would never swear at me.

I think you have drip fed though and need more help here as regs drugs etc. hope you can access this op.

The OP mentioned all the facts that she thought were relevant in her post. In an active discussion, it would be surprising if she didn't respond to posts and give out more information.
A discussion will obviously involve some 'drip feeding'. It's not an exam essay to be written in so many words in one sitting.

chocoluvva - to be blunt, its also a bit of a leap to go from starting a thread about an arguement over a kebab to having a suspicion about 'skunk' and alcohol.

flow4 you clearly know what the real issue here is and having watched the car crash of a life my niece had for 4 years I know something about where it might go next. I think you are asking for parenting advice (that is what MN is for) and I have told ypu what my sister faced with my niece. I am not entirely clear you have truely faced up to the real issue here and I think it might be best if you start another thread (which I will not post on) and ask for advice about the primary issue you have now raised.

flippinada - No smuggery involved. What my niece did to my sister was deeply unpleasant and upsetting for all involved.

MoreBeta and because your niece is a girl you didn't assume lack of meat was the main problem? :P

OP was responding to a suggestion that she give her DS money to have more independence in his food choices. She's much surer "without a shadow of a doubt" that he'd spend it on alcohol and junk food.
Should she get professional help for his drink problem too?

Quacks - I obviously know my niece and what the underlying issues were I dont know the OP or her DS and the arguement over a kebab pointed to a food issue NOT drugs and alcohol.

Anyway. FYI at the moment I am embroiled in making a quiche containing eggs, cheese and a relatively small amount of pancetta and ham. This will no doubt come as a major surprise to some.

I do get irritated when people accuse prayers of drop feeding when they are just responding to questions.

There's been a rather unpleasant undertone all the way through the thread from some that if op just catered to and indulged her son a bit more his behaviour would improve.

I don't mean prayers, I mean posters!

And drip feeding. I really should preview!

... and will be eaten with salad!!

Well don't come running back here to cry when your sons call you a bitch for not putting enough meat in the quiche/salad!

Drip feeding isn't just responding to questions. It's asking a question that, quite reasonably, elicits one sort of response and then dropping in a piece of information that casts a whole new slant on things. It's like me saying this chap weed in the bath - is that a bit odd? - and then, a few posts later, saying the chap is six months old.

Flow4 your son needs professional help. There are clinics where he can get the meat cure he needs. Availability is limited though (only open from about 8pm to 4am and sometimes only late hours at weekends). Meat Cure Clinic

ProvincialLady

ProvincialLady.

I hope you feel suitably chastened and are planning to seek the help of a professional third party flow4

'Math you've not even got the wrong end of the stick, I think you've got an entirely different stick.

I don't know anyone who allocates a certain percentage of the family food budget to a specific person, why on earth should the OP?'

Well, willy nilly, I allocated about half the food budget to my own DS. How this came about was that he ate at least half of every meal I cooked and he cooked himself several meals per week as well (breakfasts of scrambled eggs and other 'animal protein'). I bought the food and he accounted for half of the consumption. As I mentioned earlier, I would find him in the kitchen eating seconds of dinner every night between 10 and 11 or even later. I rarely had leftovers to put in the fridge. If he was out with friends I used to leave the pots out with lids on and he would nuke a plateful or two or two or three for himself. I realised he accounted for half the food consumption when he left for university and suddenly I was left with mountains of leftovers.

DS cheerfully cooked his own breakfasts and cleaned up afterwards. He would clean pots when he had scraped every last speck of stew, mashed potatoes, etc., out of them, and then turn on the dishwasher. I never had an aggressive outburst of any kind from him and I am almost 100% sure he never smoked anything dangerous or mood altering like skunk. Nor did he drink much (with one spectacular exception). DS would complain a bit (as did the DDs) if dinner was 'spagbolagain' or 'lemonchickenagain', and I can recall complaining to my mother about a particular no-brainer dish she used to serve a lot. There are things I wouldn't even bother cooking because I know how they feel about them. However, complaints are always of the milder variety and no-one has ever thrown a tantrum.

That is why I think the question of food is the occasion and not the cause of the outbursts. Violently abusive outbursts that recur regularly are never normal and you should try to get to the bottom of them while you still can and before he is unleashed on an unsuspecting public. Whether it is skunk and alcohol or some underlying personality issue this is a big problem. It is much bigger than kebabs.

Chocco -- why would someone suspect a DS would spend money on skunk if he didn't have form? That is the last thing I would expect my own DS to spend money on. Literally the last thing. He would buy brussel sprouts before he went out looking for skunk (which really messes with your mind).

You say "I strongly urge you to get professional help early before this spirals" and math advises "you need to call in a third party because you have to get to the bottom of the abusive outbursts". I would like to point out that you are both assuming, in a rather condescending and presumptuous way, that I haven't done this already. Some of the other posters know me from other boards and know that if and when I need parenting advice, I go elsewhere, and would not ask for help in AIBU.

Two things here.

First, are you therefore going to drip feed a bit more and tell us about the problems your son has experienced and teh help you have already had with them? Because if you have already had help with the outbursts then the kebab issue really isn't the issue is it?
And yes, you really are drip feeding.

Secondly, sorry to have burst in so rudely on your private conversation with people who know you from elsewhere . I was under the impression that this was a public forum where no wide background knowledge of posters and their problems was assumed.

Mathanxiety, have you any justification for your assertion, throughout this thread, that men need to eat meat?

"PMSL hunter gatherers" doesn't count as evidence, by the way.

I think the meat thing is a complete red herring here (to get the animal proteins completely mixed up).

If you want to start a thread about animal vs. vegetable protein I am sure you would start a lively debate.

Fwiw and possibly related to this thread is the fact that iron deficiency anemia can contribute to irritability among other symptoms. Iron comes in quite a few foods including many standbys in a vegetarian diet, but is especially found in animal protein sources -- the type of iron here is heme while the non animal protein sourced iron is non-heme. Heme iron is easier to absorb.

Animal proteins are complete proteins with all necessary amino acids in one source. Veg proteins have to be combined or the amino acids are not available to the digestive system. Obviously with animal protein sources, cooking and eating for max nutrition is that much easier. I can see the appeal of 'easier' for any cook, let alone a teen cook.

We all need protein (and iron), not just men. I have mentioned boys because the OP has a DS and hasn't talked about a DD.

We need vitamin B12 too. The most efficient way to get these nutrients is to eat animal protein. Teenage boys, who are laying down muscle whether they have an active lifestyle or sedentary need more protein. Teen girls and all women of reproductive age need more iron (but teen boys and men do too).

But this is about vegetarian fare vs. animal food no matter how much the OP or vegetarians might want it to be, nor is it a case of an apology making everything ok.

I thought tofu/soya contained contained all the 8 or 9 amino acids the body needs?