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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think he shouldn't have to miss next weeks' swimming because he was naughty?

192 replies

KirstyJC · 17/10/2012 17:53

Today DS1 (9) had his weekly swimming lesson with school. He and quite a few other kids misbehaved in the changing room afterwards, and as a result he (and they) has been told he won't be allowed to go swimming next week.

Now, I have no problem with him being punished for being naughty - he has to respect what the teachers say and if he didn't then it is absolutely right that he gets into trouble for that. He isn't normally in trouble and I want this to be nipped in the bud and don't want him to think he can get away with it.

But, I don't think banning him from swimming is right, surely? I mean, would they do that for maths - a kid is naughty in a maths lesson so they get to miss the next maths lesson? I don't think so! As far as I know, swimming is on the curriculum and shouldn't be looked upon as a treat that can be witheld, but as a compulsory lesson that he shouldn't miss. He could stay in for break, write lines etc as a more suitable punishment.

I admit I am a bit biased as we rarely go swimming as a family so he is a very poor swimmer, and I am really keen for him to go for lessons with school, so perhaps I am crosser than I should be about this. I have also paid for the whole terms' lessons in advance, so if he doesn't go I want my money back. OK so it's not much but they cancelled a lesson last term and we didn't get it back for that either, and it all adds up!

So, MNers, I have my tin hat on - AIBU?

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 17/10/2012 22:10

Oh and I meant to say, the reason I think the punishment is a much better one than keeping him in at break, is because...

A) The kids are representing the school so should be on their best behaviour.

B) It's bloody dangerous sodding about on wet floors etc and ignoring instructions.

C) I'm quite sure you'd be the first to complain (quite rightly) if your child got injured/separated from the group because it had descended into chaos.

Removing him from the swimming lesson for one week will drive home the message that if he's to go, he has to behave.

FishfingersAreOK · 17/10/2012 22:22

I hated swimming as a child.....this would teach me to misbehave every week to miss the lesson.....

Scarynuff · 17/10/2012 22:30

Since we implemented our behaviour policy, our grades have shot up, we have few behaviour problems and the children get on better

Since you implemented your behaviour policy? Does that mean that you had a policy but didn't implement it, or that your school had no behaviour policy?

Either way I'm Shock

I've never heard of a school not having and implementing a behaviour policy.

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 22:34

Er, since we implemented our current behaviour policy.

clam · 17/10/2012 23:04

I resent the implication from esme that teachers who implement sanctions/punishments to badly-behaved pupils are somehow sadists who enjoy the process.
I had a child last year who deliberately pushed a non-swimmer in the water as he walked past. I'm afraid I didn't spend a great deal of time counselling him as to why he'd done it and why it was dangerous and so on as there is no justification for such a dangerous "joke." I hoiked him out of the lesson before the splash had even settled (and the victim fished out safely) and he was damn lucky to only miss one subsequent lesson.
Fortunately his mother was very realistic about her son's general behaviour and fully supported our actions.
OP, I'm afraid that any queries you raise about the suitability of this punishment will come across as you quibbling. Just suck it up. Yes, in theory you might have a point (about whether a child should miss a curriculum subject) but for the greater good you should just suck it up.

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 23:08

I don't know where you got that implication from, but that's not what I was saying at all.

Counselling is not the same as questioning. A life or death situation such as throwing someone into a pool is not the same as messing about in the changing room. As a teacher, I'm sure you can appreciate the broad spectrum of behaviour that goes on in school.

Like I said, a lot of people who are keen to assume things rather than asking.

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 23:09

And also I never said I didn't implement sanctions. I said neither I nor anyone else in my school issues punishment for the sake of it. We want children to learn from their mistakes and we want those around them to continue to be able to learn.

Mrsjay · 17/10/2012 23:10

Kirsty ik what worra pointed is why your son was punished this way there really isn't any other way to deal with behaviour like that in a swimming pool it is far to dangerous and you would have had something to say if he slipped and broke something, good luck at parents night and as you said you need to suck it up,

Quadrangle · 17/10/2012 23:15

I think the teacher dealt with it appropriately

clam · 17/10/2012 23:19

"As a teacher, I'm sure you can appreciate the broad spectrum of behaviour that goes on in school."

Please don't patronise me.

"I don't know where you got that implication from, but that's not what I was saying at all."
Probably where you said: "I don't particularly enjoy punishing children" and "not as some kind of revenge or payback."

I also don't think anyone is advocating sanctions for the sake of it.

fluffypillow · 17/10/2012 23:21

YABU. The punishment fits the crime imo.

clam · 17/10/2012 23:21

And surely every school wants their pupils to learn from their mistakes and rectify bad behaviour. Discussion about the episode goes without saying. But it doesn't mean there shouldnt be a sanction/consequence/punishment (call it what you will) as well.

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 23:41

You don't think there are teachers advocating sanctions for the sake of it? You must have worked in a lot of pretty cushy schools then.

Is that patronising enough for you?

HongKongPhooy · 18/10/2012 06:35

it reads more like you are the inexperienced one TBH esme

"what were you doing? who else was involved? why shouldn't you do it? what will you do to remedy that behaviour?"

of course 99.99% of teachers ask these questions and want their children to reflect on why they have behaved the way they have, and make better choices going forward

there is nothing to suggest teacher hasn't done all of this as well as exclude OPs ds from the lesson next week

I cant imagine what your old behaviour policy was like if it didn't include the approaches you speak of?

a class which has many children with behavioural problems will not suddenly find the disruption stops because you ask those children these questions

SoupDragon · 18/10/2012 06:54

Thank god Esme isn't one of my children's teachers.

rainbowinthesky · 18/10/2012 06:58

The school was spot on. Not sure why I am slightly amazed at someone starting a thread like this. Good luck, op.

FolkGhoul · 18/10/2012 07:19

As a teacher, I'd say it was the right decision.

The rules around going swimming and appropriate poolside/changing room behaviour is made very clear to the children before they go.

The consequences are also made very clear.

If a child chooses not to follow the rule, then they are also choosing the consequence.

I don't want to have to tell a parent that their child is in hospital/injured because they, or another child, was messing about in the changing room or the poolside or in the water (slippy floor, sharp corners, hard stone walls, deep water).

Neither do I want to have my career ruined by an investigation into negligence because the above happened.

Neither do I want to wake up with flashbacks for the next 20 years where all I can see is someone else's injured child and know that if only I hadn't prioritised little Jimmy's right to go swimming every week over everybody else's right to be safe in and around the water.

Taking children swimming is a logistical/risk assessment headache and if the risk assessment states X behaviour is a risk to other pupils and that anyone displaying X behaviour should be excluded from attending, then so be it.

Feenie · 18/10/2012 07:35

You don't think there are teachers advocating sanctions for the sake of it? You must have worked in a lot of pretty cushy schools then.

And you must have taught in some very, very strange ones.

valiumredhead · 18/10/2012 08:13

My ds was pissing about in the art room last week -really unsafe, he got a detention, he didn't miss the next art lesson. I think OP makes a fair point.

Scarynuff · 18/10/2012 08:23

A life or death situation such as throwing someone into a pool is not the same as messing about in the changing room

Yes it is! How can you not see the seriousness of this? There are so many hazards. Have you ever done a risk assessment for swimming and changing in public swimming pools?

Children are told before they go swimming that they must follow all rules at all times. There are no excuses.

Safety for all is of paramount importance. If behaviour cannot be guaranteed it is absolutely correct to ban them from going.

It's not hard to see the logic here.

claraschu · 18/10/2012 08:32

From Esme (is that with Love and Squalor?), I completely agree with you (and I think you have great taste in stories). People who have the prevailing attitude about punishment will not get your point, I don't think.

Spatsky · 18/10/2012 10:12

I do have a lot of sympathy with the ops position because lots of children, including the ops, don't have regular or any access to swimming outside of the school lessons and water confidence is important IMO which is exactly why it is part of the curriculum.

That all said, consistency is discipline is extremely important, missing the next swimming lesson would probably be entirely appropriate in most cases, it would be I n my sons case who has regular swimming and would see the school swimming as fun time.

Unfortunately you can't single a child out for not receiving that same punishment as the others because their personal circumstances ae different I don't think. Children need to know what the punishment will be and that they will all get the same punishment for the same crime otherwise you lose all control.

Just my personal thoughts so op although. Do sympathise and think it is unfortunate in your case but I think you need to accept it and support the teacher on this.

DesperatelySeekingPerfection · 18/10/2012 10:47

YABU.

The fact that you have paid for activity is something that you should impress upon your child not the school.

Messing around in the changing rooms is dangerous and I expect your son would have known he shouldn't be doing it. If it was my child I would be glad the school were taking it seriously. I expect the teacher handed out an immediate punishment to those involved. I expect it will have more impact than a missed break.

I hope your son hasn't heard you complaining about the punishment otherwise I think he will feel he isn't in the wrong and the fact that he is not allowed swimming will probably lose its impact.

Tbh I cannot see how you think it's anything but a reasonable punishment.

needsomesunshine · 18/10/2012 10:54

My ds loves maths and would see it as a punishment if he wasn't allowed to go. That's the whole point of a punishment. You take away something they enjoy!

FromEsme · 18/10/2012 17:39

Actually, SoupDragon, I am your kid's teacher. Sorry.

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