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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think he shouldn't have to miss next weeks' swimming because he was naughty?

192 replies

KirstyJC · 17/10/2012 17:53

Today DS1 (9) had his weekly swimming lesson with school. He and quite a few other kids misbehaved in the changing room afterwards, and as a result he (and they) has been told he won't be allowed to go swimming next week.

Now, I have no problem with him being punished for being naughty - he has to respect what the teachers say and if he didn't then it is absolutely right that he gets into trouble for that. He isn't normally in trouble and I want this to be nipped in the bud and don't want him to think he can get away with it.

But, I don't think banning him from swimming is right, surely? I mean, would they do that for maths - a kid is naughty in a maths lesson so they get to miss the next maths lesson? I don't think so! As far as I know, swimming is on the curriculum and shouldn't be looked upon as a treat that can be witheld, but as a compulsory lesson that he shouldn't miss. He could stay in for break, write lines etc as a more suitable punishment.

I admit I am a bit biased as we rarely go swimming as a family so he is a very poor swimmer, and I am really keen for him to go for lessons with school, so perhaps I am crosser than I should be about this. I have also paid for the whole terms' lessons in advance, so if he doesn't go I want my money back. OK so it's not much but they cancelled a lesson last term and we didn't get it back for that either, and it all adds up!

So, MNers, I have my tin hat on - AIBU?

OP posts:
HongKongPhooy · 17/10/2012 18:30

esme because it was such a fiffy-faffy non-commital answer to 'what would you do'? no teachers enjoy punishing kids, and just want them 'to change their behaviour'. Surely you must have some idea what you would do with a child who misbehaved on a trip off-site? what consequence you would consider appropriate?

(i dont mean to be as arsey as this sounds, just a bit confused)

sparkle12mar08 · 17/10/2012 18:31

Actually I also agree with you OP - swimming is a compulsory part of the curriculum in primary schools (see the DoE website) and should not be witheld. It's not as if you're asking for him to be excused all punishment either - it's quite obvious you are supportive of the school needing to punish him. Ring the school, ask for a meeting and outline to them what you've said here.

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 18:31

Like I said kate2boysandabump I would need to see what actually happened to decide on a response. I don't often see punishment modifying behaviour. I tend to get the children to speak to me and tell me why they've behaved in a certain way. Then I'll decide on a punishment with them, if it's appropriate. I'm sure many people would say it's a bit wishy-washy but it's always worked for me. I'm only part-time at the moment, but I don't have many behaviour issues in my class.

In your situation, I may very well keep the child at the side of the pool under supervision, but I'd be making sure they were joining in with learning the strokes and so on. I wouldn't just say "no more swimming".

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 18:32

HongKongPhooey I might be more disposed to answer you if you weren't so arsey.

Molehillmountain · 17/10/2012 18:32

I also think that Missing a lesson is more of a logical consequence than a punishment. I would have explained to my class that in order to go swimming they had to behave appropriately for safety reasons and because members of the public had a right to a pleasant experience too. If they werent able to fulfil their responsibility then I couldn't take them. Punishment would be lines, missing break, that kind of thing.

Whoknowswhocares · 17/10/2012 18:33

To those saying swimming could save a life and is too important to miss..... Just how much difference will 1 lesson make to any child's swimming ability? How much safer would that extra lesson make them? Compared with learning the lesson that you don't muck about in an unsafe environment?

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 17/10/2012 18:33

Sparkle

I stand corrected

Sirzy · 17/10/2012 18:34

So if your keeping a member of staff to supervise a child who can't behave you are taking them away from helping and supervising those who can.

Most schools only just have enough staff to supervise swimming as it is without having badly behaved children sat at the poolside.

HongKongPhooy · 17/10/2012 18:35

and totally agree you shouldnt be gurning about the nature of a punishment that the school has decided is appropriate (unless its something obviously awful)....totally undermining their authority and giving terrible messages to your dc

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 17/10/2012 18:35

The one thing I would ask is whether the children were warned beforehand that bad behaviour would result in them missing the next swimming lesson - if they were warned in advance, then I am afraid you have to accept the school's decision on punishment. If not, then it is a bit more questionable.

Medeleyev - surely someone is going to have to supervise e children who don't go to the next lesson - so actually supervising them missing break time would be less onerous than supervising them for e full time the rest of the class is at swimming.

If swimming is part of the curriculum, the school shouldn't be removing children from that lesson as a punishment. That said, though, I do see that supervising a classful of excited children at swimming is not easy, and misbehaviour at the pool could be risky as well as reflecting badly on the school, so the teacher did have to do something to deal with this bad behaviour.

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 17/10/2012 18:35

FromEsme

So this amounts to him missing the next lesson. Good idea about practising strokes, though

meditrina · 17/10/2012 18:35

I don't think you should try to argue the point about missing a curriculum lesson either. I happens every single time a child has to be sent out of a lesson for misbehaving.

Much better that he learns to modify his behaviour; and cause and effect discipline is usually highly effective.

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 18:36

We normally have a group of children out of the water at all times anyway, Sirzy I appreciate all schools aren't the same and that's why I gave a "fiffy-faffy" answer. Because all circumstances are different.

HongKongPhooy · 17/10/2012 18:37

i didnt ask the question- OP did esme

like i said...am not meaning to be arsey

Sirzy · 17/10/2012 18:37

Children who for whatever reason can't go swimming generally go and sit in another class with some work so no real extra supervision needed

kate2boysandabump · 17/10/2012 18:37

FromEsme I agree it is wishywashy. Surely you can see messing about out of school in a potentially dangerous environment needs a consequence?

To clarify, he missed one lesson and brought in the letter from home. It is not possible to to supervise a child one the pool and teach him the strokes when trying to teach the strokes to the children who are actually in the water.

valiumredhead · 17/10/2012 18:37

At ds's last school the teachers were never allowed to use not going swimming as a punishment - it's part of the curriculum, just like a maths lesson as you say OP.

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 18:38

Jamie well, he is essentially missing it, in a way. But it would be made clear to him that he is missing going into the pool/changing room because of safety reasons and not as some kind of revenge or payback.

I see way too many kids in a constant cycle of misbehaviour and punishment because no-one has ever given them the option of learning how they should behave.

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 18:39

kate2boysandabump like I said, maybe you think it's wishy washy. It works though, so who cares?

I didn't say I'd have no consequence. I said it wouldn't be that one.

Sirzy · 17/10/2012 18:40

Your solution hardly teaches how he should behave either tbough.

There is no reason that this can't be accompanied by plenty of discussion prior to his next lesson to ensure he understands why he needs to behave then extra supervision when he is back to lessons.

ll31 · 17/10/2012 18:41

i think that missing swimming will make it v likely that he wont mess again in changing rooms. i think you'd be better empkoyed supporting school than trying to get him out of it.

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 18:43

sirzy I don't think I particularly offered a solution, did I? I said that he wouldn't miss swimming but he might not be in the water. But of course I would have other consequences/responses.

It really saddens me that so many still have this punitive approach to misbehaviour. It. doesn't. work.

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 18:44

ll31 how does that work? He's 9. He obviously doesn't realise that mucking about is unsafe and annoying. How is making him miss swimming going to make him realise that?

Sirzy · 17/10/2012 18:45

So come on esme a pupil of yours is messing around in the changing room after swimming what would you do? It isn't a hard question!

HongKongPhooy · 17/10/2012 18:46

i agree with sirzy kids with behaviour problems generally benefit from clearly defined behavioural expectations, with consistently enforced consequences of not meeting the expectations.....

with explanations alongside, and underllying issues being addressed

but this isnt a behavioural problem from what OP has said...just a one-off that will surely be nipped in the bud easily, if teacher/school are left to do their job/s