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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think he shouldn't have to miss next weeks' swimming because he was naughty?

192 replies

KirstyJC · 17/10/2012 17:53

Today DS1 (9) had his weekly swimming lesson with school. He and quite a few other kids misbehaved in the changing room afterwards, and as a result he (and they) has been told he won't be allowed to go swimming next week.

Now, I have no problem with him being punished for being naughty - he has to respect what the teachers say and if he didn't then it is absolutely right that he gets into trouble for that. He isn't normally in trouble and I want this to be nipped in the bud and don't want him to think he can get away with it.

But, I don't think banning him from swimming is right, surely? I mean, would they do that for maths - a kid is naughty in a maths lesson so they get to miss the next maths lesson? I don't think so! As far as I know, swimming is on the curriculum and shouldn't be looked upon as a treat that can be witheld, but as a compulsory lesson that he shouldn't miss. He could stay in for break, write lines etc as a more suitable punishment.

I admit I am a bit biased as we rarely go swimming as a family so he is a very poor swimmer, and I am really keen for him to go for lessons with school, so perhaps I am crosser than I should be about this. I have also paid for the whole terms' lessons in advance, so if he doesn't go I want my money back. OK so it's not much but they cancelled a lesson last term and we didn't get it back for that either, and it all adds up!

So, MNers, I have my tin hat on - AIBU?

OP posts:

mutny · 17/10/2012 18:11

Also ywbu to ask for a refund. The money will have been paid upfront. The reason your son is not going is because he can't be trusted not be cause of the swimming baths.

NatashaBee · 17/10/2012 18:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KenandDeirdre · 17/10/2012 18:14

YABU - this is an entirely appropriate punishment and regularly happens in schools BTW. If a child misbehaved in any other subject they might also be removed from the class.

I think though that YANBU in being annoyed about losing the cost of the lesson. I am very surprised that you are having to pay for the swimming lessons (is it a state school because this is highly unusual?). I might possibly ask for the cost of the lesson to be refunded whilst assuring the school of my support in their choice of punishment. Good luck.

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 17/10/2012 18:15

So what are you left with then fromEsme?

Swimming isn't on the curriculum, afaik, although exercise is. Maybe make him do vigorous mopping? Or run round the playground

Original poster

KirstyJC · 17/10/2012 18:15

Oh wow - finally someone who agrees with me!! I had given up hope!! And a teacher too - that's interesting. You see, I totally think the same about not making swimming a treat as well, which is why I don't like him missing it.

Could I ask, as a teacher, what you think would be appropriate punishment? I plan to call the school on Friday so it would be good to have an idea. Oh, and I want to call the school to find out what happened as for some reason DS1 is a little forgetful about what happened - I'm not calling to tell them I disagree with them! (Although I expect the conversation may move onto that )

OP posts:

wannabedomesticgoddess · 17/10/2012 18:16

I dont see how missing out on something which is educational and is part of the curriculum is an appropriate punishment really. Plus the fact you have paid for it.

There are plenty of other ways to punish them.

YANBU.

They may have taken such a firm stand to show the swimming pool staff that they will not tolerate that behaviour though.

Sirzy · 17/10/2012 18:17

As a teacher I fully agree with the punishment. Bad behaviour at a swimming pool has very dangerous possible consequences and your son has to realise that he needs to be trusted in order to go swimming.

SoupDragon · 17/10/2012 18:18

I think it is appropriate too. Swimming pools and changing rooms are not places tobe messing about due to safety issues. Messing about in a maths lesson is unlikely to result in an injury.

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 18:20

Kirsty, it is quite a difficult one but then I don't particularly enjoy punishing children. I just want them to change their behaviour, and punishment often doesn't do that. So I think it would depend a lot on the child and the situation how I chose to respond to it.

Whoknowswhocares · 17/10/2012 18:21

Ah excellent..... OP fixates on the tiny minority who agree with her and plans her complaints accordingly. So not really an AIBU, more a validate my opinion then?

HongKongPhooy · 17/10/2012 18:23

are you sure you are a teacher esme?

akaemmafrost · 17/10/2012 18:24

I agree with you OP.

catgirl1976 · 17/10/2012 18:24

Sounds fair to me I'm afraid

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 18:25

Why be so catty, Whoknowswhocares ?

I wouldn't advise complaining to the school, OP. All schools have different systems and you just have to suck them up sometimes. I do think removing kids from any part of the curriculum (for more than 5 or 6 minutes as a time-out) is a pretty pointless way of attempting to change behaviour.

Have never seen it work in all my years.

FromEsme · 17/10/2012 18:25

Yes HongKongPhooey I am, why do you ask?

Latara · 17/10/2012 18:25

Ok, i think YANBU because i believe that punishments should be more or less instant & fit the crime.

For example if i was his teacher then i'd make him miss his next break after he misbehaved - either that same day or the next day - to write lines eg. ''i will not misbehave at swimming because it's dangerous'' - that would definitely drum it into his head.
(Not sure if schoolchildren still write lines as punishments but they should!).

Swimming is essential as it could save his life one day so i don't think that should be missed.
Also it's like punishing YOU - because you've paid for the lesson - & that is wrong too.

Mendeleyev · 17/10/2012 18:25

Oh yes keep little Jonny in at break or lunch time. Now who do you suppose will have to supervise him? Why should the teacher or a TA give up their break or lunch to supervise a detention?

zipzap · 17/10/2012 18:26

I can see both sides - and whilst it is bad that they were mucking around in the changing room, I think that of all lessons, swimming is the one that it is vital that they do get to do as - if it's anything like other schools I've encountered - the kids don't get to go to that many swimming lessons. At ds's school (junior) they only go to swimming lessons in one year of the 4 they are there. And I have no idea if it is for the whole year or part of the year.

For some kids, those are the only lessons they will get in learning how to swim. Maths - there are lots of maths lessons and it's rare that math's gets to be a life saving skill. So in the course of primary education you may have hundreds of maths lessons, missing one will not dent your maths knowledge in the same way that missing one swimming lesson, which may be one of 20 that you ever do. It's more akin to missing a term of maths than one lesson.

I would have a word with the teacher. is your son suitably chastized by his behaviour, shocked by his punishment and has he realised the error of his ways? Do you think he will now behave properly when going out with the school - swimming or anywhere else?

If you think he will behave properly from here on in, then talk to the teacher, explain that you are worried by the fact that he is missing swimming and that this is basically his only chance to learn. Were they given any warnings that if they were naughty (or continued to be) they would miss swimming? I think it is a harsh punishment to pull if they use it as the first punishment and if similar behaviour at school isn't punished so strictly.

And I would ask them to change the punishment to an in-school punishment - even if it is a week of detention (or whatever would be seen to be a bad punishment). But then let them go swimming. And then if they misbehave again - then they get left behind and miss out on swimming. If they refuse, then I would ask them about why the policy is different for swimming if it is a compulsory curriculum subject than other subjects. Just because it is a hassle for teachers to take kids swimming isn't really an excuse, kids play up occasionally, that's why teachers have to punish them but the punishment is to punish the offender, not to make the teacher's life easier. You could argue that if the teachers were better then they would have better control over the kids and they wouldn't bother to mess around! (I know I'm going to get flamed for taking the argument to quite this extreme but I do think swimming is important. And I have watched teachers in different places - the good ones do command the respect of their classes and the kids behave much better than they do for other teachers, so it's not just a one way thing).

(And it's not the time to ask at the same time - but I would also ask them what their policy is for cancelled lessons - do they rearrange the lesson or refund the money? I'm guessing you are more concerned about him learning to swim than having it back if he could go, but think like you, if they cancel then they should do something - not just keep it for their coffers!)

kate2boysandabump · 17/10/2012 18:27

I'm a teacher and I agree it's a suitable punishment. I took a class swimming and one child pushed in a non-swimmer and stood on the side and laughed while I fished out the other child. He was not allowed to swim the following week, as he could not be trusted to be safe around the other children. He got the message, I still have the apology letter he wrote me 13 years ago.

I think with paying for swimming, you are paying for the transport, not the pool and the teacher. Does your ds go on a coach? My ds's school walks to the pool and there's no charge.

FromEsme, you still haven't answered the question. What is a suitable response to this incident? I don't enjoy punishing children either, I think you'd struggle to find a teacher that does, but sometimes it's appropriate to modify behaviour?

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 17/10/2012 18:28

Again, i say swimming is not part of the curriculum. It's offered on the basis of children behaving appropriately in the wider world. Schools would and could ban children from a trip if their behaviour was antisocial. I see this in a similar way

MardyArsedMidlander · 17/10/2012 18:28

I am just amazed that people would even be discussing this with the school. And wonder why your son doesn't feel he has to follow rules
TBH, if the money and the lesson is that important- then tell him to bloody behave himself next time! Why undermine the school over something that is frankly deserved?

Molehillmountain · 17/10/2012 18:29

I would go with Yabu I'm afraid. It's really tough taking groups of kids swimming - as a female teacher who took groups of year six children swimming you really have to be able to trust them to get in with changing. I didn't supervise the girls directly but if there was a problem at least I could go in. The boys knew I couldn't enter the changing room and that they were on trust. They also knew that swimming, whilst on the curriculum, was to an extent a privilege as other PE could be substituted. Schools only have to get children to swim 25m and lessons above and beyond are great but not a requirement. So we had a pretty much zero tolerance aporoach to mucking about, which worked. If you pay for lessons I think the school may refund you, but at the end of the day your son did misbehave.

Pagwatch · 17/10/2012 18:29

I would be reluctant to query a punishment set by the school unless I felt really strongly.
I think whining about the nature of a punishment jut because you are irritated by it isn't a great example.

I tend to like it when a punishment is related directly to the 'offence'.
If I took DD to her swimming lesson out of school and she messed about I can quite see myself saying 'if you mess about I won't bring you next week'

It seems relevant to me. And the fact that it causes you some irritation probably means your son will be doubly determined not to piss about again. You would be far more upset if he did it again and missed swimming again then if he gets lines at lunchtime, wouldn't you.
That may give your son an extra motivation not to do it again.

I can see why ou are irked but tbh I think punishments that work are probably a good thing.

Sirzy · 17/10/2012 18:29

It isn't his only chance to learn. Swimming pools can be accessed by anyway if the OP CHOOSES not to take her son swimming the school can't be blamed for that.

Missing one lesson won't harm him, messing about in the changing rooms could

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 17/10/2012 18:29

Good point Mendeleyev

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