to think that a 3 year old girl shouldn't be in nappies

[missymarmite]

Quick background. I have 1 DS 9, we live with DP and his eldest DD 10, and we have his other two DD, 7 and 3, every weekend from thursday/friday to sunday.

The 3 year old had her birthday last month. I put my foot down and took the executive decision to try toilet training her. Every time before that, I mentioned it to DP he said it was up to his XW to sort it as the resident parent. So one day I just put her in some old knickers and let her run round outside in a dress. She got a bit upset when she wet herself, but over the next couple of weekends she began to get the hang of it. You can tell when she needs to go, because she kind of holds herself down there. At night and when we go out we put nappy pants on her and then she doesn't ask for the toilet, but in knickers she does.

DP told XW that she won't ask for the toilet when in nappy pants, but she has made no effort whatsoever to toilet train her, despite the fact that she only works part time and has every weekend child free, while both DP and I work full time and are exhausted most of the time, we still make the effort.

Am I BU to be frustrated and annoyed at this woman?

For those who are complaining that the thread is mostly saying its up to the mother, when OP and DP have much of the care... I think the point is that DP didn't seem overly fussed and OP has made the decision to potty train someone else's child off her own back. Without either parents consent.

Would you really be quite happy if this happened in your situation? I was mad enough when DS' childminder announced (in springtime) that she was going to start potty training him over the summer. I pointed out that as his parents, it was OUR decision when to come out of nappies, not hers.

I would like to know what the XW has said in relation to potty training as OP has obviously mentioned it. It all seems to be ridiculous attempts at point-scoring from here and should be stopped now.

Dd1 was 3 when she potty trained. She was soon trained day and night. She is now in year 2 and has never had an accident in school. She is bright, an excellent reader and in the top groups. I would love to hear how the slightly later potty training has harmed her.

Yup, forever - id like a 'why' for your statement too?

LockedKey of course she has no rights. None whatsoever. She is the childs fathers partner.

My 3.5 year old has just been trained. I made no attempt before because I have older children and know from experience that the stress of trying to train a child that is not ready,either verbally or phsiologically,is just not worth it.
DC was dry day and night in three days.

4 pages without a second post from the OP. Wow.
I agree with everyone else, absolutely not the OP's place to decide this. I would be, well livid doesn't even cover it.
OP, she is not your DD.
After reading the thread, I can't remember if you said you'd discussed it with her mum.
Way way way out of line, so yes, I think YABU.

But, I do think it's more than reasonable to get a chilkd out of nappies before 3 years old, but some children at that age are just not ready.

Yes, she probably should be out of nappies at three, but YABU for interfering in something which is nothing to do with you.

YABU

Let?s just turn this on its head for a moment.

If this wonderful hard done by mother turned up on here complaining that her XH and his DP were not following through with her attempts at toilet training, what would you say?

Yes of course you are quite right. I am an interfering know it all, and have no right to have any say in the raising of an innocent child. The mother is always right and step-mothers are the devil. I mean, I only have her two youngest children 3-4 days a week, every week, in my home. I only have her eldest child here 24/7, because she prefers to live with us than with her mother. A mother who never calls to speak to her eldest, never showed any emotional upset about her daughter not even wanting to stay over or visit. Only ever complained that she and her DP now receive less tax credits and maintainance.

I only take care of them, feed them, buy clothes and toys for them, work full time and contribute financially for them even though they have a healthy mum and step-father, and I have my own natural DS to take care of. I only change nappies, wipe bums and faces, take them to the beach and comfort them when they hurt.

What right do I have?

Those are slightly different issues - not invalid, don't get me wrong but they are an aside from the potty training question.

It's about much more that toilet training then isn't it?

You sound vile.

Also, how do you actually know that the girl's mother has made "no effort" to try? I started potty training my DS at 2.5 yrs and although he showed some of the signs of being ready, there were other signs that he really wasn't.

He was fine with using the potty for a wee. However, he started doing poos in secret (behind cushions was a favourite) and then becoming very distressed when they were discovered and denied that he had done it. This progressed to him waiting until he was alone at nap time, then taking his nappy (I put one of for his nap) off, doing a poo in the cot and rubbing it all over himself, his bed & the walls. Again, he became upset after doing this.

We made the decision to go back to full time nappies. I tried again when he was a few months past his third birthday. He got the hang of it within two days, was instantly dry at night and never had an accident.

Based on that experience, I would rather leave a child in nappies until they are just past the stage of being 'ready' rather the force the issue earlier and distress them.

You say the little girl was a 'bit upset' when she was wet. How DARE you think that is okay, when you are looking after someone else's child?

Sorry but your last post confirms my feeling that you are in the wrong here. These kids need help bonding with their mum, not you confusing matters.

Yes the mum is right and the step mum is the devil is a common theme, and in this case these kids have obviously had a traumatic time in their few years. However hard you try, there will always be tension.

Your role, having chosen to get together with their dad, is to support him in his parenting decisions and make the lives of these kids as easy as possible. This include not making major changes that neither of their natural parents want.

You need to be talking to your DH and taking on board many of the comments on this thread

If this wonderful hard done by mother turned up on here complaining that her XH and his DP were not following through with her attempts at toilet training, what would you say?

^^But that's not the case is it? You "put your foot down" and MADE the "executive descision" to start it yourself. At least, that's the way you posted it in your original OP. Or has it now changed?

"What right do I have?"

You have the right to walk away. A right her parents do not have; this is the difference between a parent and someone else.

Your comments reinforce the suggestion that you are doing this as a way of criticizing the child's mother and her choices about her child.

YABU.

lock, she isn't the primary carer because the child's dad is there too. Nowhere has op said it is only her that looks after the child. The fact is, they both work full time, so they only really see her Friday night (as both at work all day), Sat & Sun. (2 nights (F & S), 1 full day (Sa) & part of Sun). IF they see her Thursday, that is one more night = 3 nights

Assuming the child goes home Sunday night, then mum has her ALL DAY Mon, Tues, Weds & most of/all of (if not at her dads) Thurs. That's 4 full days 4 nights, possible 5 if child isn't at her fathers Thursday night.

And yes, the mother does get more say than the new partner of her ex. Even if they were married, it is still mum's place to decide. Dad has already said he believes it is the mothers choice, but the op has completely undermined him here. That is not her place her to do in the eyes of his children.

Yabu. Stop interfering and let her parents decide when they want to do it. She's only just turned 3. Her parents should agree between them when to start, it's not really your place to "put your foot down"

Why are you and your partner tolerating a 10 yr old NEVER seeing her mother. Unless there is serious abuse (which I assume there isn't as the other dds remain with her) a child needs a relationship with both birth parents. You are risking that child's future wellbeing by facilitating the situation.

I've not read the entire thread so this may have already been said many times but have you tried putting yourself in the mums shoes. Would you like it if the step mum was trying to force this issue?

Also I don't think any success will come from two households doing different things with regards to training her

I will be apoplectic if exp tries to force putty training. If he had a partner and they did I would be rabid.

maybe instead of talking about the rights of the various adults involved, it should be considered that the DD in the middle of this is going to be getting very confused. You are adults, have a conversation (all three of you together) and decide on a plan and stick to it. There is no SHOULD about any area of child development and those saying they "should" be in pants at 3 are not helping. DS is 3.1 and in pants but still has accidents after 4 months of training and is nowhere near with poos. He will get there but actually, we probably did start too early.

Let?s just turn this on its head for a moment.

No. Let's put it the right way up. Your relationship began with you knowing he had children. Unless you are deaf, blind and a bit thick you must have come accross the reality that blended families can be very hard work and things don't always run smoothly. But you chose it anyway. You picked this bed, it's a bit late to complain that you don't like the lumps in it.

You role is, at the very least, to AVOID adding to any hot spots of conflict or tension.

Not for ex's sake, not for DP's sake, not even for your sake (althpugh you all stand to gain from that overarching stratagy) But for the kids' sakes.

Becuase you three all got to make choices in the creation of this set up to a significant degree.

The kids did not. They have no power, they just get to like or lump what you three create in terms of atmosphere and power stuggles.

If you are not up to the task of letting even little stuff like "later than I'd like" potty training go for the sake of not upping the ante in terms of bad feeling, then what hope is there that you will be up to the task of not swirling the troubled waters over the big stuff ?

From my perspective, it's not about you. It's about the smallies who don't have an equal voice in the mess that the adults around them are trying to make of their childhoods.

If that is not your perspective then you are no better than the mother you are accusing of not having her priorities straight.

I would be raging. I tried to push dd1 when she was 3 and a few months, she has AS, but we didn't know at the time, now at 6, she still has huge issues with toileting. We left dd2 until she wanted to toilet train. She refused to go near a potty or toilet, saying she would do it when she was four. Then at 3.5, she saw a Minnie Mouse potty in Mothercare and she wanted to use it. So we got her that and a toilet seat. She had a few accidents but soon got the hang of it and we never looked back. She's now very reliable, just a few months later.

CinnabarRed

Agree with you re big event! My friend started her ds too early & failed. Then left it too long to try again. He was a few weeks off preschool (just past 3 here) when she decided they really needed to get it done. They tried again & he was dry for that few weeks. But since starting preschool he isn't reliable dry anymore. He is almost 7 & still wets at night & during the day if he gets too preoccupied.

I 'm sorry but that's not turning it on its head at all.

You simply do not have the right to decided all by yourself when she should be potty trained. She isn't your DD

that's the deal you signed up to, I'm afraid

Here's a post that might make you think about the spread of ages for potty training:

DD - Dry during the day at 6y7m, at night at 12y9m.

DS1 - Dry during the day at 18mo, at night at 21mo.

DS2 - Dry during the day at 2y7mo, despite being non verbal and unable to walk, dry at night at 4y3mo.

DS3 - 20mo, and starting to show signs of being ready for PT, so am going to give it a first go in the next school holiday at the end of October. If it doesn't work, no stress, back in nappies for a few months.

So my DC's have been dry during the day at ages that vary from 18mo to 6y7mo. And dry at night at some point between 21mo and 12y9mo...

There is a HUGE variation on when EACH child was physiologically ready. If they don't have the muscle control, recognise the urge to go, and have the ability to communicate this to you then they aren't ready.

And even if they ARE ready, the mum may well be waiting for a school holiday so that she doesn't have to deal with a wet or dirty child while on school runs, and give her some time at home in knickers before attempting school runs with her.

Much as I am with 20mo DS3...