For this little girl to have put me off sending dc to private school.

[reallythough]

Name-changed as I have a feeling I'm going to get flamed and I'm a bit scared.

We are unsure of whether to send our dc to private school or state school at the moment, we have one starting school next September.

DC who will be starting school next year attends pre-school at a nursery attached to a private school which we really love, the staff are brilliant, dc is very happy and has lots of friends. Last week I picked dc up and walking out of the school an 11ish year old girl and her siblings ran out shouting 'oh Daddy you've got your new Range, look at Daddy's new Range everyone' on repeat about 5/6 times whilst looking around to show everyone that she didn't know (it was a particularly nice car).

I don't want our dc growing up surrounded by people who place importance on materialistic posessions at such a young age. It made me wonder whether a state school will be a more organic surrounding for dc to grow in rather than the quite narrow selection of people they will be socialising with at an independent.

I read something the other day about how we try to re-create our own childhood for our children and I went to private school but after juniors was desperately unhappy there and felt trapped. I am not criticising the girl at all but it did remind me that on the whole a lot of the people I went to private school with were very materialistic and quite narrow minded. AIBU for this to have jolted me to have a serious re-think?

'Leading female surgeon means fun life, lots of money'? Is that actually true, though? I have a friend who's by no means a leading surgeon but she is quite a senior doctor. She never sees her kids (they often even go on holiday without their parents, because their parents can't get the time off), and very rarely seems to get the chance to spend the large amount of money she earns. It's not the life I'd want for my kids.

Obviously I know tons of career women earning a lot with children whose lives are quite fun. I think if you have spare money and can delegate dull cleaning work etc and particularly if you work for yourself then you can have a pretty decent life as a woman. I just read Nadine Dorries' interview in Tatler and she did pretty well , was earning £500k a year, worked her way up, put 3 children trhough private school, one now a trainee solicitor at Mishcons. I think it givse you huge choices if as a woman you can earn quite a bit and do work you adore - most of us in that position also seek to maximise time with our children. In fact I woudl say it is my money and owning rather than being a PAYE employee which gives me the time and good relationships with the children which if I were the minimum wage call centre worker with 3 jobs I woudl not achieve.

I must though go to bed as I need at least 8 hours of sleep a night.

But I've rather strayed from the point OP, sorry. I think, rationally speaking, YABU, but that incident would have made me think twice too (in the sense of reminding me of my concerns about private school). I don't think for a minute that all private schools are good/bad or that all state schools are good/bad, but to suggest there's no real difference is ludicrous (why the hell would anyone spend the money on them otherwise??). In my local town there are a couple of private schools (incl one v posh school) and a few state schools. If you drive through town at kicking out time you can tell from a mile away which kids go to which type of school, just by looking at them.

Oh Xenia if you think you are polite to everyone you need to have little rethink.

old job you put that face in as Christ wasn't funny
but I see you're desperate for it to be seen as
it was a lame joke

Oh dear. There have been some very sensible opinions on this thread. And some very extreme.

FWIW Xenia I enjoy your posts. I suspect you do not mean to be offensive ( I truly hope you are not winding people up for the sake of it) because I actually know many people Who are like you. And I believe you are talking from your/their perspective. However that is not reality in the mainstream and therefore people who have never touched on that reality can not possibly understand. To be truly privileged , and most in private education aren't really, does open doors and to deny that that happens is very foolish. It just does.

But

You are an extreme example, even in PE, that sort of attitude exists in top public schools ( and can you name thise on the fingers of your hands? )and to a lesser extent in others.

Some people may want to bang on about how so and so has done well, even though they went to a comp and therefore there is no preference for public school types with connections anymore, but that is just rubbish. Because like it or not, whatever background you come from, contacts can and do help. But if you are the better candidate, contacts don't mean a thing. You are, purely and simply a better candidate.

To get back to the OP, one child should not affect your opinion of a school, although it has obviously given you thought about the who private thing. But only you can decide whether a school is right for your child.

Agree wholeheartedly with Henrietta. Most of the 'career' people at DS' private school are rarely there to drop/off collect at school, rarely at children's birthday parties or if they are, they are constantly on Ipad etc - even at their own child's party .

The only ones who do seem on the surface to have the benefits Xenia speaks of are those who have wealthy husbands and have the time to spend with their children, beautify themselves etc.

There are various point. One is that plenty of women aim far too high and if they see how Nadine Dorries has done and I for that matter is it terribly inspiring to loads of them. It might well annoy some but I think on the whole as we have not got a huge load of examples of women who have really enjoyed their careers and had a largish family it is very useful to hear about them.

Secondly people always just pick out the money bits of my posts to suit their own agenda. If I say I would rather children earn a lot and enjoy work rather than just enjoy work (or neither) people pick on the money bit. Instead I have repeatedly said the important bits of life are being happy and healthy and having good relationships and a rounded life.

I want my children go gain from school and home to gain emotional robustness, ability to cope in a crisis, stoicism, internal emotional ability to cope, capacity to love and be loved, confidence but also English self deprecation (when I am not encouraging women I am pretty good at that too), a range of interests and hobbies - sport music etc which they can fall back on whenever they want. I have never particularly thought about contacts as I don't think London academic schools are really like that nor much recruitment unless it is a career where who you know gest you the internship. My daughters are in something where there are formal application processes and I don't think knowing someone made much difference. Indeed the very best places like to practise reverse nepotism. I have been at places where the sons of the founders were told they had no future at the firm because of their birth. However I think if you are in a business where you need to generate business as most of us are then as you get older and that matters more then your ability to generate business does matter. Now that may be all kinds of means - there is no one route to it.

I certainly most of all want children to have a 40 year career which is hugely intellectually satisfying. Nearly 30 years on I get out of bed enthused and keen. That counts a lot more than the money.

I never do drop off,have iPad,2 constantly ringing phones
fortunately get to avoid school gate politics and the wags.
re;parties I'd turn up for opening of an envelope aye,work is v advantageous

DowntonTrout, yes, yes pity the uninitiated- accusations of snobbishness abound, when really Xenia is just misunderstood as we're all ignorant of the world she inhabits??

You can dismissively refer to people on this thread for 'banging on' about people telling you of being in these positions with a state school education but it is not going to alter the fact that things are changing. There is competition for positions from all sorts of backgrounds and complete indifference to old boy networks from foreign owners of newly acquired companies. On this point you completely contradict yourself, on the one hand people are foolish to think contacts from schools aren't everything and on the other hand you say that they don't mean a thing if a better candidate is available - well yes exactly!!

No. You see you are putting words in that aren't there. I didn't say foolish to think "contacts aren't everything" , I said that denying it happens is foolish. There is a difference. And it is certainly not so black and white as to be able to say it doesn't happen at all.

Of course I know that PE doesn't guarantee anyone an in. Just as I know state comps don't rule anyone out of a successful career. In fact my DH rather proves the point, as someone from a really deprived council estate, with 1 CSE to his name, who is now MD of an international company he started from scratch.

We started in state education with our DC but after a very harrowing experience moved to private. We were lucky to have the option. But I am certainly not of the opinion I am buying them a place in chambers, really just that I am choosing to pay for something that is a better option than what I previously got for free. In my situation, it the town that I live, with the schools I have a choice of, that is just how it is.

I don't "pity" anyone, I certainly don't look down on anyone. I am only saying that I know people, yes with views like "Xenia" , whose lifestyles and background are certainly beyond my comprehension, but they are in the minority of the 8% minority.

I just get tired of all the bashing of PE on here. I also consider it a privilege to be a SAHM these days, having been a working mum with my first 2 DC, I really enjoy just being a mum and would never knock anyone for being either.

It reminds (the original post) of being in a school playground when for 2 years we had had a child at a school in Kensington. A chaffeur of a Duke's grand daughter was delivering her to school and there was much excitement as the new baby was a boy (girls not wanted in the same sense although I am sure they are loved, this was the heir's spare...) very sexist but it didn't put me off the school.

I am not sure anyone can alke about people with my lifestyle and background in the sense meant above. My great grandfather was a miner and most of my life is like most people's - work and children things and lots of stacking of the dishwasher and I hope respect for all people. The fact I'm a free market libertarian means I care more for the poor not less. The left have no monopoly on care.

Goldenbear, you in fact seem to have "reverse snobbery" where you seem to think that it is ok to insult people who have been privately educated as you have suggested that they have done well because they bought their education.

You also seem to be missing the point of what other posters are saying when you keep referring to your brother as being a shining example of the changed world. You only seem to have experience of this through one person - your brother. The reality is very very different to what you percieve.

And as for the statement that it is different in US law firms - you will find that in any reputable US law firm you have a large proportion of the workforce with an ivy league education.

You are correct in saying that the best people are hired to work in places such as international law firms but as I said in my previous post if two candidates are equal in all respects and one has a connection to the firm through family or other then who do you think will get the job?

No matter how you try to gloss over it, the fact is that there is a much higher percentage of people who are privately educated in places where the old boys network traditionally existed.

Well I was privately educated until I was 11 so I don't have those prejudices.

People do buy education for some kind of advantage for their children be that Academic, sport facilties etc. otherwise what is the point?

At no point have I said old boy networks are no longer in existence, I said things are changing and it is not correct to say that they still have the same influence as they did 25 years ago. I am referring to anecdotal evidence but it is also true to say that deregulation in the City has contributed to lessening the influence of the school tie in recruitment decisions, as has global competition and markets not being owned by these people anymore. This is nothing to do with my brother, if you read a paper, journals you'll know this is happening? kerala, also referred to these changes, have a proper look over the thread.

Believe me my DB's firm is very reputable!

Of course it is much better but still things like what is your accent and do you wear what others do and have things in common with them count so eg if you ski or ride that might give you a conversation topic. My daughter worked with someone give a chance of work experience for a week. no one dared tell that other girl who had been repeatedly turned down for jobs that she should try to dress like the others at work. Eg none of the others have bare legs and she did. I think one of them should have taken her to one side and told her and I also think anyone whatever class and whatever upbringing can look around at work and see what fits in and what does not. The bottom line in most companies is if you are good and clients/customers like you and yoru colleagues you will do well. If you are useless you are unlikely to get even an initial job but even if you do because your mother puts £10m of business the way of the company each year you won't last long.