For this little girl to have put me off sending dc to private school.

[reallythough]

Name-changed as I have a feeling I'm going to get flamed and I'm a bit scared.

We are unsure of whether to send our dc to private school or state school at the moment, we have one starting school next September.

DC who will be starting school next year attends pre-school at a nursery attached to a private school which we really love, the staff are brilliant, dc is very happy and has lots of friends. Last week I picked dc up and walking out of the school an 11ish year old girl and her siblings ran out shouting 'oh Daddy you've got your new Range, look at Daddy's new Range everyone' on repeat about 5/6 times whilst looking around to show everyone that she didn't know (it was a particularly nice car).

I don't want our dc growing up surrounded by people who place importance on materialistic posessions at such a young age. It made me wonder whether a state school will be a more organic surrounding for dc to grow in rather than the quite narrow selection of people they will be socialising with at an independent.

I read something the other day about how we try to re-create our own childhood for our children and I went to private school but after juniors was desperately unhappy there and felt trapped. I am not criticising the girl at all but it did remind me that on the whole a lot of the people I went to private school with were very materialistic and quite narrow minded. AIBU for this to have jolted me to have a serious re-think?

Confused.
Don't you think some families with children at state schools buy Range rovers?

I still think this

Mine were utterly uninterested by my husbands latest merc. It looked the same as the last one

From page one of the thread is the funniest post on here.

In my eyes you get great state schools, poor state school, less 'driven' private school complete with fab pastoral care and lastly cut throat very 'driven' private schools with top grades.

It's best to visit them all once or twice hopefully one will seem right.

So you're not paying for improvements on the state offerings then, improvements that benefit your child? If you're buying benefits then you are surely saying your children need them otherwise what is the point in paying for attainments that they can arrive at without those benefits. That's just foolish.

Suenbfg - contacts get you global internships post Uni. Think all the best & most exciting companies in the world - where you might dream of working. Sure you'll need to be hardworking, willing & bright & have the requisite ability but contacts & connections still get you a vital foot in the door.

That is not an absolute guarantee anymore. That contact may allow you to be seen but it doesn't get you the internship necessarily. It is too much of a risk in this Economic climate that is good but not the best. It is not enough just to know somebody, it is too much of a risk. You could end up with a senior level employee being outperformed by a junior employee and this puts the company in a position of weakness!

Not so in my experience. If you've a great degree from a very well regarded university are bright & a good candidate powerful contacts definitely help. I know many with covetable internships in some way because of whom their parents knew. It's the initial 'in' if you like. I know others who are 'good enough' but perhaps not stellar who have parents on the board (but not many).

I also haven't touched on all the unpaid internships & work experience that go on in some blue chips. Definitely skewed in favour of the already privileged & nepotism prone. Helps to springboard those who are also bright & ambitious into permanent positions in the future.

10 or even 5 years ago maybe but the global competition that is increasingly breaking up markets dominated by old boy networks is resulting in much more demanding recruitment practices- 'good enough' is not enough anymore, the best is what is searched for and recruited.

It happens here a lot - Asia - so whilst we might like to think it's a total meritocracy out there it's certainly not the case in my experience. Agree nothing like as widespread as once was & you need to be a very good candidate.

As an adult, I drive a 700 quid car and couldn't care less what make it was. I was massively excited as a teenager when my parents bought their first ever new car, though. For the previous 15 years, they'd been driving a rust bucket so rickety and noisy that you couldn't hold a conversation when in it. We were all pretty excited really. I defy anyone truly to not be excited by a large shiny new purchase, however unmaterialistic they are.

But to be honest, it sounds like you have more issues with private education than the ones that meet the eye.

I'm not living in some Parallel Universe where this is the norm. I KNOW that it is happening. I'm not niave enough to think it has been eradicated but it is changing. Continuing to believe that it is not the case, now that is niave!

On the question of interns I am sure some contacts do help. I don't think it's easy to get internships. I don't think I've ever managed it for any child (and mine are at private schools) but it hasn't stopped them getting jobs. It probably also depends on your sector. Journalism is apparently one of the worst and fashion whereas something which has paid vacation schemes for those very very few who pass the stringent test to get on them in established professions are much fairer but they have more money to fund that. Newspapers and fashion are not likely to copy that and start paying under graduates £300 a week as other professions do.

I am with you Goldenbear. I do think that certain priveleged pockets of people will always be able to advantage their children in the way I describe. It's happening right now & will always happen. There will never be a level playing field I fear. Many don't know it happens - I was one of them. You assume that girl at Apple, Reebok, OK magazine is there completely due to luck, chance & hard work - & she will be - but that often isn't the whole story. There are networking organistions out there. I fully agree it's far less rampant than it was - at one point an average or even poor intern was tolerated for a while, definitely not the case now.

Given a choice between two equally good candidates those whose parents have a head's up an intern is neede & are buddies with the CEO have the advantage.

I have read the first three pages and the last one.

OP I think a lot of people have missed the point and jumped on the chance to have a have/have with reference to wealth and class.

I think this girl (whilst I think she would sound awful, no one likes a show IMO) was just a catalyst to misgivings about your decision over your child's education.

If you want dc to have a certain type of educational academic experience then choose the school that's best, if that school whatever it is, makes the, feel unhappy for whatever reason then you are in charge and can move them. You are also responsible for instilling in your child whatever values you chose, no matter what school they go to, car they drive.

I think you've just had a wobble re memories from your own experience which is clouding your decision. How does your dc feel?

golden I actually think things are getting worse not better.

If you are not from an advanatged famiy it is becoming increasingly harder to make your mark.

The cost of university is making a huge difference. Students from less advanatged families don't have the full choices available. Many now stay at home while they study regardless of whether their home town uni is well regarded.

Then there are the dreaded internships. Hard to land without good contacts and anyway how do most people fund them?

The arrival of the global economy seems to be exacerbating matter too, as so many large companies from abroad are in thrall to big name schools and universities.

Social mobility is at a very low ebb in the UK. People know this and feel school fees are money well spent. The stats don't seem to challenge that at present.

OP - a little girl said a silly thing. Did you never do that? I really wouldn't read too much into it.

If we were both working full time we could at a stretch have afforded private school. I meet a lot of parents and kids from private schools through my work and TBH, I just couldn't imagine socialising with them. Inviting them round to our little ex council badly in need of decorating semi, dropping off at school in our average family car. I just don't think we would fit in. People who prioritise money above everything just make me feel slightly ill. I like more down to earth types.

As I said on this thread or above the better places have internships for those with great exam results at £300 a week in university holidays much much much better than in days of yore. Selection is often on line as my children have found and you cannot even get aninterview unless you have the right ucas score and pass the psychometric or maths test - all done blind to the nature of the candidate. Much better than things were.

Also now university is 100% totally free but some thickos seem not to grasp that. you pay not ap enny whereas my son had £3k fees a year. You can veven get a free grant if you are poor plus student loan for maintenance and if yo live at home or work over the summer it is really not a difficult thing to manage even without one penny of parents' money. You only pay if you ever earn over £20k a year or whatever which plenty may never particularly if they are like to become happy housewives for life at 28.

xenia that's just not true.

You get a guaranteed loan for fees but what about living expenses?
Many students are not entitled to the full loan for living expenses and what they can get simply doesn't cover student accommodation/food/bus fares/books etc

If the government won't lend you the money and your parents won't/can't give it to you, where are these students to get it from?

As a former teacher at a private school, I'm glad that a parent would be worried about this kind of dynamic and have a good think about how to respond, nurture at home, etc. You know 'who' your kid is. Environments may not be changeable, but you have the good fortune to have options to change yours.

Some thickos seem not to grasp the issue with living expenses....

My children had jobs. I don't think there is anything so special about them which means others cannot.

It is true. You get the whole of the £9k a year fees automatically paid (and you only pay it back if and when you ever earn the sums concerned).

Secondly you need to cover your rent and food if you are not living at home and the children of the poor get free money, a grant which they do not need to pay back which will cover some of that. Others can take a loan on top of the tuition fees from the student loans company.

This is the full maintenance loan which the poor can have on top of not having to pay the fees unless they earn over a certain sum in due course:

"Maximum Maintenance Loan rates for full-time students
Where you live and study Maintenance Loan
You live at home £4375
You live away from home and study outside London £5500
You live away from home and study in London £7675"

I did not say you get the full one if you are not from a poor home but you can work in the holidays and weekends and that is how most students manage even if a parent does not pay a penny.

Those who are not so sell off get as I say a non repayable grant

"Maintenance Grant for living costs

Full-time students can apply for a Maintenance Grant to help with living costs. Maintenance Grants are available to students whose household income is £42,600 or less. Your household income is your parents? or partner?s income and your own.

The maximum Maintenance Grant is £3,250 a year if your household income is under £25,000.
Annual Maintenance Grant rates
Household income Maintenance Grant
£25,000 or less £3,250
£30,000 £2,341
£35,000 £1,432
£40,000 £523
£42,600 £50
over £42,600 no grant

If you get a Maintenance Grant your Maintenance Loan will be reduced."
So if your parents are on benefits say you receive £3250 which you do nto have to repay. You also can get 4374 less that as loan.

The issue will be can you pay rent and eat and buy books on £4374. Probably not for many so you work all summer and at part of weekends if you don't have generous parents. It is nothing like as bad a new system as people make outl.