For this little girl to have put me off sending dc to private school.

[reallythough]

Name-changed as I have a feeling I'm going to get flamed and I'm a bit scared.

We are unsure of whether to send our dc to private school or state school at the moment, we have one starting school next September.

DC who will be starting school next year attends pre-school at a nursery attached to a private school which we really love, the staff are brilliant, dc is very happy and has lots of friends. Last week I picked dc up and walking out of the school an 11ish year old girl and her siblings ran out shouting 'oh Daddy you've got your new Range, look at Daddy's new Range everyone' on repeat about 5/6 times whilst looking around to show everyone that she didn't know (it was a particularly nice car).

I don't want our dc growing up surrounded by people who place importance on materialistic posessions at such a young age. It made me wonder whether a state school will be a more organic surrounding for dc to grow in rather than the quite narrow selection of people they will be socialising with at an independent.

I read something the other day about how we try to re-create our own childhood for our children and I went to private school but after juniors was desperately unhappy there and felt trapped. I am not criticising the girl at all but it did remind me that on the whole a lot of the people I went to private school with were very materialistic and quite narrow minded. AIBU for this to have jolted me to have a serious re-think?

Perhaps he is the exception that proves the rule..

Another example, I had a school friend who was very clever and just knee the right things to say and do. She also went to the same university as me. She was a manager in a very high profile company by aged 27 and must have a 100k salary, living in central London.

Some people have the drive to want better things. If its handed to you on a plate, that's fine. Mummy and daddy can make contacts for you, but it's up to the individual what they do with them.

He was indeed very lucky indeed as (and this is a matter of opinion) he is not a first-rate actor. Time will tell I guess but he had a wealth of opportunities available to him, such as the David Copperfield role which kids sitting on an estate in Hull, for example, would never have. I just hope he and others like him recognise their very good luck rather than believe they are truly brilliant but experience tells me this is unlikely.

I do think though that things run in families because it seems familiar and doable.
I'm not aying nepotism doesn't play a part but I think having actors, barristers or whatever around you, make sit every day as opposed to something for other people.

Just want to interrupt the debate to give OP the benefit of my experience (I went to 9 schools, 2 were private). I don't think YABU to be concerned OP.

It will depend hugely on the school. The first private school I went to, I didn't see much of the snobbery but then again I was much younger, and we were very wealthy. Maybe I was oblivious to it.

The 2nd private school I went to was my last school and it was incredibly snobbish and the kids were obsessed with who had a bigger swimming pool. However, by this time, we were not wealthy and also the private school was not as exclusive or expensive as my 1st school, so there were a lot of kids who felt they had to prove they were rich. I was embarassed because I didn't have a huge detached house like everyone else, and it was immediately noticed when my dad would pick me up in his old banger, amongst all the mercs and jags. They say if you can't beat them, join them, and I too also developed a snobbish attitude over time, insisting my dad only bought me clothes from certain shops etc.

Personally, even if I had the money, I wouldn't send my ds to a private school as I detest snobbery and placing importance on materialism.

I'm more than happy with the state school educations my dcs are getting, and am very ambivalent about private education BUT, I don't think I'd be drawing any conclusions from the little girl's reaction to her dad's new car OP! Kids love novelty - my six year old dd was really excited about the car I bought on Saturday and insisted on showing it to all her mates in the street, climbing in, putting the seats down, playing with the window wipers and inadvertantly shutting her little brother in... It is a rather humble Fiat! Tomorrow she will be equally excited about a novelty toy from Maccy Ds.

No Seeker, they are not all their on ability alone but if you read any of my previous posts you'd see that this is not what I'm saying. However, it is not true that contacts are everything in 2012, there are many people who are in posts that were traditionally the domain of the upper middle classes. These people have no inclination to recruit people who went to the same school as them. They are recruiting people on their own merits as they were recruited. Global competition is forcing change, it is not enough to have a posh accent and uncle on the board anymore!

I'd love to think that's true and it probably is if you are talking about the board of an international bank for example but I still see lots of evidence of people in positions because of who they know, whether it's friends or family.

As for things running in the family, I don't disagree with this. However, when you are one of a hundred people all applying for a pupillary in Chambers or auditioning for a part it is unfair and extraordinary how often the person getting that job is related or connected to a person who makes the decision.

Well I know it's true unless my brother is a figment of my imagination- he is a Senior Partner in an International Law firm and he went to a South London Comprehensive school and he didn't read PPE st Oxbridge before Law college!

In his position he has a pretty good and current understanding of recruitment practices within the firm, the credentials and backgrounds of recruits and the kind of people that are his clients from blue chip companies.

I agree that the media industry is very nepotistic. I had work experience at the Sunday Times in one of my university holidays but only because one of my relatives new the Editor. However, I have to say that was quite a long time ago and The Editor at the time was not from a privileged background. Most of the journalists were though and it was insufferable!

gold my DH is in the same position as your brother. And yes he wentto a comp.

But sadly the reality is that the majority of laywers in their position do not come from that background. Pretending that they are the rule but not the exception, is daft.

And I'm sure your bro will confirm that he may not have started of with good contacts but he sure as shit has had to make millions in order to get where he is.

As I always say, contacts are just people you happen to know. Networking is an inherently human activity. Most of us don't even know we're doing it.

Certainly studies show this. It may simply be that chidlren from the better schools with the best grades are bright and have the right diction and ability to get on with the types of people the best firms serve.

www.lawcareers.net/Courses/News/11012011-Working-class-accents-bad-news-for-legal-wannabes That article on the research suggests if you are posh public school and black you are precious gold dust...

Accent uber alles etc. This is of course when picking from a massive pool where everyone has just about all As, very good 2/1 from the best university whether a comp or private candidate so they are picking the very best of the very best and still having to sift and also I suppose wanting those who don't need much sleep, have good chat/repartee as if you're stuck with someone for hours you want them most of all to be great fun and interesting rather than some kind of bright but silent mutant type who can barely look you in the eye.

Word, I'm not pretending they're the rule, I'm suggesting, with reference to anecdotal evidence that things are changing and have been for a while. If changes continue to happen at the same momentum, recruitment in these fields will be increasingly about ability to perform at an outstanding level. A private education is not got to seal the deal for your children- it is 'daft' to believe it will.

In response to your second point - yes of course he has extensive contacts now, he wouldn't be able to pull the business in if he didn't but my point wasn't about networking he has done since leaving Law college. Indeed, a lot of work he has gained for the firm has been from contacts whose career progression has paralled his and like him they are now in positions to decide to use their services. Networking is part of working life in this context but this is a very different thing to calling upon some contact you or your parents knew from school to get you a job in the first place. My DB got his initial position on his own merit.

Far from prohibiting him, his background is something he plays on, he doesn't hide this from them. This is because he can say with conviction that his achievements are entirely his own. This is the problem with private education, if you don't do well people assume you must be pretty dim as you've been given an advantage. If you do achieve high grades everyone thinks, 'well yes of course they did well, it was paid for!'.

Going not 'got'.

Or I should say a majority of people think this who didn't go to private school. Seen as a lot of people do not go to private school, it is something to consider when you decide on this option for your children. People in positions of power in 20/25 years time may not give a toss what school your children went to. Indeed, they might think less of them as a candidate. Things have changed in the last 25 years, I don't understand why you think it will now stagnate- history disproves this theory. I say 20/25 years because this is when my DC would be of an age where a profession would begin/ start to flourish but my DC are only 5 and 18 months.

ds2 goes to a public primary school. over half the cars outside are big 4x4 's.

However, whatever type of car the children all get excited when mummy or daddy pull up in a new car and want to show it off to all of their friends!

It's a little village school, so to not be taken to school in a tractor is great .

I haven't noticed that Gb. Perhaps it depends on the school. My chidlern have been at similar schools to Manchester Grammar where however rich you may be just about every child is too thick to get in and a very very very few can pass the entrance test. Therefore anyone hearing a child got into and went to XYZ knows immediately that child is very clever. They do not think ah Millfield, must be bright. In fact when we hear Millfield we think thick as a plank, rich parents and good at sport so not likely to ba high flier in any organisation requiring brains.

Well the stats show that social mobility is very low here in the UK.

There was a time when things improved. That's when DH and I got our jobs in the city. Perhaps your brother too golden But things have slid backwards due to so many factors.

I think the Sutton Trust said it's the worst it's been since the fifties.

Xenia, surely the fairly prohibitive £9500 ish fees is where the selection process begins with a school like Manchester Grammer, especially considering the average income in the UK is £20,000? If you've got the money you've passed that aspect of the selection process. This leaves a very small pool of children from which to select pupils from. The children who get a place at the school are the brightest from the pool of children applying but they are not the cleverest children in the UK as they're only been compared to fellow students with parents that have got them through the first round of the selection process - being wealthy!

I wouldn't read too much into one little girl's reaction to an new car OP... Kids get all excited over expensive tat in whatever strata of society you're floating about in!

For what it's worth I went to a state primary followed by a private girl's school and then a state grammer and the snobbish twat count was pretty even throughout.

Manchester grammar is trying tomove to letting anyone in who passes and a good few children are helped with the fees. Also believe it or not in 2012 most women work! So plenty of couples both earn the average wage of about £22k each. Certainly down in London where people work very hard and many come from other countries huge sacrifices are made by families, often many familymembers to come up with that £10k a year for school fees. I do think if mother and father work full time it is not that hard for them to generate £5k each - half the fees per child even if they have to take a night or weekend job. The best academic private schools like Manchester Grammar are not really filled with very rich people by any means.

No- it's easy for people to raise an extra 10k. Per child. And child care costs for any pre schoolers.

YABU my cousins sends her kids to Private school, does loads for charity and has clearly done well for herself and her kids. They are not snotty. You do realise you get little girls like that in even the poorest of areas right?

Nothing in life which is worthwhile is easy. HOwever it is certainly possible for many parents where both work full time to afford two sets of school fees. However some families prioritise other things. It is simply up to the family to decide their own priorities, what type of work they choose to do and where they will work.

try six lots of fees....

I have paid 5 lots of fees. Women need to go on the women who earn £1jk a dsay thread and stop seeking out minimum wage jobs and thinking they will never earn anthing and whether Lidl has cheaper carrots than Tesco and instead go out there and achieve more.