To not understand why any woman would not want to be a feminist?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Seriously why would you want to be treated worse than men?

Wordfactory are you saying that extreme feminists are sexist?

If so, I totally agree with you.

If not, I'm confuddled - sorry

I used to identify as an equalist, until I realised that I wasn't equal.

Like a lot of others I'd rather self identify as Equalist. I know that's the basis of Feminism, but quite frankly I'm tired of being told "you can't be a Feminist because [...]". I know I could make a stand against those idiots, but I'd rather not waste my time on them. Calling myself an Equalist means I can avoid all those tedious conversations.

Interestingly I'm more likely to call myself a Feminist IRL than on MN.

But kayano I'm saying that those posters don't represnet feminism. There is no Team Feminism.

Feminism is you and me. All of us.

And if you turn away from a movement that has changed all our lives over a thread about armpit hair, then I would say rquality can't mean that much to you.

'like quitting alcohol because you had a hangover'

So what of you did? That's THEIR choice? My mum hasn't had a drink since she was 21 and had a hangover. That's HER choice.

Worra - you are absolutely right. What I was trying to explain, and obviously failed, was that the word, "feminism", at least to me, means extreme feminists. The extreme feminists alienate the non-extremists.

I think too much damage has been done to the image of feminists by the extreme feminists, hence many women preferring the word, "equality" and not wanting to be thought of as a feminist.

Could we reclaim the word back? I doubt the extremists would like that.

I am a feminist and very proud to identify myself as one. The reason I am proud is because when I speak out people are aware that I do not accept myself as a second class citizen.

Before I go on, I shave my legs, paint my nails, wear high heels etc etc.

I am in my fifties now and have been a feminist since I was old enough to realise that my opportunities in life were less than the little boys I played with.

As far as enjoying being a woman, doors open etc etc that is not the issue for me. If someone holds a door open for me I would not dream of telling them not to. I have bigger fish to fry. I have also been a SAHM in the past and enjoyed every moment with my son. My beef is the fact that being a SAHM is seen as demeaning by society. I cant understand why other women dont get annoyed. If someone is a cleaner I dont see them as any less valuable than anyone else but society does.

I do go on the feminist boards and have disagreed with people on there. I have never been flamed - we just agree to disagree. I have been flamed on many occasions by women who I have been face to face with and they are the non feminist women who have done that. No member of any political party completely agrees with everyone else in the party, that is a fact of life you have to accept that. I certainly have never found it scary - maybe I am hard!

I believe that men and women are different. Women are better communicators, men are physically stronger. My argument is that these should not make either gender superior. However, in this world men are seen as superior because they are stronger.

Empusa RL is far more important than MN.

MN is a la la land of make believe. Populated by policy wonks and folk with too much time on their hands.

Let's be honest there is a lunatic fringe on MN who think you're not a proper parent unless you give birth in a pond while reading to your other DC. They haven't made anyone stop identifying as aparent ahve they?

wordfactory - why do you not see that many women who believe in equality do not want to be associated with feminism?

I have never said I reject and turned away from it because of a thread about armpit hair - I was trying to say that it's stuff like that that disillusioned women. And there is a lot of that so lets not pretend.

There is a lot of
'oh you agree? Fantastic!'
'oh you don't agree? It's because you have been conditioned by the patriarchy and know no better poor lamb'

I am trying to say how it comes across - a lot as it happens.

I do identify with equality - and the right of women to choose what's right for them regardless of what people think, but you do get posters who say they really pity you for your decisions.

It's ridiculous, there are LOaDS of of put women on here and then male sympathisers are banned from meetings too. On these boards it just seems like a whole lot of discussion and not a lot of action other than to heap more judgement on women but from the other perspective

And frankly I need neither

kayano it was a joke. Are you sure your not a rad fem?

do not want to be associated with feminism in 2012, I should add.

I find it interesting that when a poster says they'd rather not use the label of Feminism there are accused of not agreeing with any of Feminism or of actively working against it. When that isn't what they've said at all.

IMO that sums up why so many people dislike associating themselves with the label. There's definitely an impression of, "if you don't 100% agree with us then you must be against us". Funnily enough, the very accusation thrown at those who want to fight for equal rights without using a label.

florence I can see that.

I'm saying it's a shocking shame. And that we should change things.

Empusa - exactly.

"If we all stand up for what we believe in by a. identifying as feminists and not allowing the sexists and the gobshites to sully the movement and b. quietly pursuing equality...then the world will be a much better place IMVHO"

I have a finite amount of time/energy, do I want to spend that time dealing with
a) striving for equality?
b) arguing with feminists?

I don't see the harm in looking at the world from a woman's perspective though. It doesnt have to be at the exclusion of a man's or gender neutral one, it can be as well as instead of instead of.

To be honest worra I don't know any extreme feminists so I couldn't say. I expect some of them are, yes. And some won't be.

What they are, is noisy.

They are not representative. They are not in charge.

My beef is the fact that being a SAHM is seen as demeaning by society. I cant understand why other women dont get annoyed. If someone is a cleaner I dont see them as any less valuable than anyone else but society does.

Quite MrsClown, and it was demonstrated with respect to being a carer too on a recent thread

Empusa you don't have to spend any time arguing with feminists. I don't.

The simple act iof identifying with feminism in your own individual way, makes extremits irrelevent.

Let's be honest there is a lunatic fringe on MN who think you're not a proper parent unless you give birth in a pond while reading to your other DC. They haven't made anyone stop identifying as aparent ahve they?

sorry but that made me laugh out loud properly not the LOL rubbish

owl with all due respect one poster told you what you did was anti feminist.

You don't even know if that person is a feminist or is some bloke who fancied winding you up.

The vast majority of feminists would say that any person's working status should have no relevance to their importance in society.

Why is identifying as a Feminist more important than just striving for equality though? Why do we need to identify as Feminists if we are fighting for equal rights anyway? What advantages are there to using that label?

I know she isn't a bloke, infact i know who she is in real life as I have been around these parts for too long and I am being over sensitive. I know I am.

I
just
needed
to
write
it
down

I was once told on here that i was dying my hair to conform with blah de blah blah it does get a bit boring TBH