To not understand why any woman would not want to be a feminist?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Seriously why would you want to be treated worse than men?

Femiinsim does not need rebranding.

Because feminisim isn't a brand.

It's not one thing set in stone. It's not a political party. It doesn't have rules.

It's just common bloody sense. Women are equal to men. Women should have the same opportunities as men. Sexism is bad for men and women.

If everytime the sexists try to manipulate you and see feminism as somehting daft or evil, you just stick your fingers in your ears and sing la-la I can't hear you, you'll feel much better .

Amybelle - I know some feminists will accept men into feminist groups. I wouldnt agree with that. Women are brought up to defer to men. Women only space does mean that women can be more honest and explore the issues more honestly.

I know there will now be women posting saying that a man being in a group wouldnt stop them being hones about their feelings and views. But my point is, that it would stop some women.

Guffaw at the idea of Feminism as a Broad Church. If only.

Deep down I'd like to call myself a feminist. My own ideas of feminist. I know if I posted all I thought on so-called feminist issues, I'd get told that some of my beliefs aren't truly feminist. There'd be nitpicking. So I feel I've been shoved out of the club. It's not an inclusive club, not for me.

lljkk - Feminism is a broad church. Lots of feminists dont agre with each other on things. But there are basics that everyone agrees on. And this is what makes us feminists.

At the minute outraged you don't have the option of being a part time CEO and that has never been an option for you at any point in your life. It's not something you could have studied or worked towards or planned for. Because how things are is if you want to do that role it has to take up most of your time and energy and does not give you the opportunity to have a family and spend lots of time with them too.

Maybe you would feel differently if very high powered and responsible roles were family friendly, maybe not. But as things are, you can't make the choice anyway and still spend lots of time with your dc.

"Some jobs just don't lend themselves to part time or job shares though. That's not because they are anti women, it's just because women tend to strive for a better work/life balance than many men do.
So if one person is prepared to put in extra hours and stay in the office until 10pm on a regular basis and one isn't, then it's more likely that the person who is prepared to dedicate more free time will get the job. Sex is irrelevant."

See, this is where the FWR board did make me question. They presented the view that as women had always been there to do all the housework, childcare etc then this kind of work practice was able to come about only because the women made it possible. If men were to take more or share those kind of responsibilities traditionally taken by women then the workplace conditions, and hours etc would probably have been set in a different way. Not explaining it too well but it was a very interesting take on why men are able to concentrate so much time on their career.

Exactly handbag.

Who put them in charge anyway. Ignore em I say. What can the do? Ban you from being a feminist ?

You don't abandon somehting so positive and brilliant as feminism just because someone somewhere says somehting you don't agree with. I mean, come on, who thinks right, I'm giving up on freedom and equality because a person on the t'interent who I've never met and am never going to meet has said you can't be a feminist and wear a vajazzle?

Personally I think I am a feminist but I have posted recently on some threads and got called pathetic and accused of supporting my husbands career because I care for our severely disabled child and to be honest I cannot be arsed to justify or debate with people, women, who have absolutely no idea about the practicalities of a life with someone with a severe disability. If loving and caring for someone makes you not a feminist and such an awful person, then i would rather not be

If we all stfu every time someone disagreed with us, no one would ever say anything again, ever!

lljk there is no feminist club to be in or out of!!!

Sexists just like to protray it that way to make you feel like you shouldn't identify as one.

The reality is that millions of women all round the world are quietly and individually being feminists. There's a women somehwere in Africa right now thinking it's a bloody nightmare that she can't get any condoms cos she just does not wnat another child. She's a feminist.

I wouldn't call myself a feminist because I've looked on the feminist forum on Mumsnet - out of interest - and was quite horrified by the raging and raving going on along with the "poor women, we are so badly done to".

Remember we are on mumsnet! Everyone disagrees with everything. You can post the most innocousd thread and get attacked in forums like camping. So why would the feminist board be any different? Of course it is not going to be full of posters agreeing with each other. And of course, just like other boards, some posters are going to be harsh.

I dont understand why some posters think the feminist board will be different to any other board on here. Mumsnet has a certain culture that you can see throughout the site.

See I can't see why you wouldnt welcome men into a feminist group

ESP if ou are saying a feminist is someone who just wants equality. hardly equality to ban a load of people based on their genitals.

I know a few 'feminists' who will moan about loads of stuff - the patriarchy, the injustice of the housing market on women, loads of stuff... To me, a fellow woman.

By banning men and not including them in open discussion where exactly do you think you will get? Pankhurst pinned a banner to a horse so that men (who mainly watched racing back then) would sit up and take notice of the injustice of it all. Now women are banning male sympathisers from meetings because they have a penis?

I think people would be a lot more willing I identify if they were called something to do with equality rater than just about the women

Word factory - but what are al these feminists actually doing about that poor woman in Africa other than discussing her to death and nodding sagely about the patriarchy?

Argh! How many posts on here are from posters saying that because not all self identified feminists agreed with all their personal life choices that they now reject feminism?

Seems a bit like throwing the baby out with the bath water to me.

As I said feminists have different views about men at feminist meetings. I personally think feminism is not about equality, but about womens liberation from our male dominated society. So yes men can be allies and it is great when they are. But like all social movements, it is the women who are actually affected by this stuff who are most likely to fight for effective change.

For example womens aid, rape crisis centres - were set up virtually only by women. Because it was women who cared enough about these issues to do something about it

It's just ignorance IMO. I'm grateful to the feminist movement for so many things - not least of which is the fact that I was able to go to university, have a job and vote. I think people forget that without big movements like this none of these rights we enjoy today would really have come about.

I don't have a problem with saying I'm a feminist for this reason, though I'm probably not the world's greatest feminist given I've put baby before career at this point in my life and also taken my husband's name. Still, at heart I'm a feminist and will always be one.

I don't think anyone said they reject it, they say they struggle to identify with it because it does have an image of a perpetual state of outrage.

Lots of posters have said they are all for equality and to discuss the various issues but dont want a title or an -it's attached to them.

I think very very few feminists would criticise any woman for putting their baby before their career. Certainly there are plenty of radical feminists who do exactly the same.

Argh! How many posts on here are from posters saying that because not all self identified feminists agreed with all their personal life choices that they now reject feminism?

None and I've read the whole thread.

However what I do see, are people saying that the extremists and their often hard line 'my way or the highway' views, tar feminism with a huge brush.

Due to that, a lot of people don't want the feminism label.

Oh come on.

Who said the feminist boards on MN are the ten commandments of equality?

What intelligent person has a peep at a thread on MN and based on that decides to turn their back on a movement who brought us the vote, contraception, maternity pay, the right to have the years looking after a child taken into account on divorce?

Nope, I think we should go back to men running the universe because a poster on MN said Brazilians are anti-feminist...I mean come on.

you don't have a choice if you become a carer, that's the bloody point

some peoples lifestyle choices are seriously limited

I think worraliberty is right, I think the aggression from some posters IS off putting, label or no label.

I had never heard of women's aid before mumsnet

How sad is that?

I agree owllady some women choices are severely limited in life. We cant all be high flying career women, or work outside the home. Feminism for me includes getting the best deal for all woman, not just those who can or choose to work outside of the home.