to think that arguing and swearing in front of your children harms them

[BurntToastSmell]

So me and DH have a difference of opinion on this. He thinks that arguing in front of your children (to the point where the children - a toddler and a baby - are crying) is 'normal' and acceptable. He doesn't think it harms them in any way because "everyone does it".

I cannot accept this. Not when I see how distressed the children get. Not when I hear my 2 year old daughter repeat her father's words: "Piss off!"

It breaks my heart.

Am I being precious? Am I over-reacting? I feel sick to my stomach about the affect tonight's argument had on the children. It took me ages to comfort and calm down the baby. DH and I don't argue frequently, but when we do, there tends to be shouting and nasty words involved.

DH will only accept academic evidence in the form of journals (mature, I know). Does anyone know of any studies which have shown that such behaviour harms young children?

YANBU

hang on wrt evi

Your husband is a twat, who the fuck does he think he is ?

I wouldn't say that in front of the children, though

YANBU

I think it's bloody obvious without any kind of 'journals' that hearing shouting and swearing between your parents, is going to upset you and make you feel insecure in your own home.

YANBU one of my earliest memories is looking up at my parents as they argued, long words beginning with 'i' that I didn't understand. I am sad about this as my father died when I was very young and I wish I had happier memories to draw on

tell him to ask a social worker

YANBU. Mine and DH's parents both argued horribly and we both have nasty memories. We don't argue in front of the children. It's rude

Erm nope it's not what everyone does.

I don't think you are overreacting at all.

Am I right to feel so heartbroken at the kids' reaction? I'll have difficulty sleeping tonight, just thinking about it - the distress on my baby's face as he struggled to catch his breath through crying, and my daughter swearing for the first time and not knowing what she was doing :,(

He sounds horrible, poor kids.

In 2001 an organisation called OnePlusOne published a study called "Not in Front of the Children" - research into how children witnessing arguments (or worse) reacted and the effects on them. The study is being done again by Kids in the Middle, another family charity - here:

kidsinthemiddle.org.uk/front-children/

However, I bought the original book to show my husband, and he still didn't take a word of it on board. If his own common sense doesn't tell him that this is wrong, and that as an adult in the situation its up to him to control himself, then no book is going to help. Trust me, I know.

OH dear

DP and I have argued in front of kids, and I was set to say so

then I read your thread, this is not good OP

sorry for you, and the kids

SundaysGirl - he firmly believes it's what everyone does. He's 43. How could he have carried this (false) belief for so long? He comes from a dysfunctional family, but surely he knows what normality is by now? Worse still, there's no way I can prove to him that it's not "what everyone does".

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/contemplating-divorce/200911/divorce-doesnt-harm-children-parents-fighting-harms-children

www.thejournal.ie/arguing-parents-could-harm-childrens-sleep-patterns-134745-May2011/

women.webmd.com/news/20060209/kids-harmed-when-parents-fight

People who are very academic do sometimes lack common sense. Maybe these articles will persuade your husband that common sense is right in this situation.

And not everyone does it. My parents very rarely argued in front of me and DW and I never argue in front of DD (TBH we never argue).

YANBU
If I hear strangers arguing I feel distressed. I'm 39. I remember the very few occasions my parents argued as it was distressing. As a child you always blame yourself if there is dispute, because the world as you know it totally revolves around you, so if there is discord it must be your fault. Sorry no academic research here just common sense.

I don't know about evidence but my parents had angry arguments a lot and I remember how frightening and upsetting I found it as a child. I don't see why your dh needs journals to make him believe it is harmful when he can see with his own eyes how it upsets your kids. I know the arguments and other things have affected me and also the relationship i had and have with my parents.

What a fucking idiot. Some of my earliest memories are of my father screaming blue murder at my mother, using every vile word he could think of, while my sisters and I cowered. I was terrified of him until well into my thirties, and then I realised he was just a pathetic little man with poor control over his own impulses and no respect for his wife and daughters. If one of us had been a boy, we'd have knocked seven shades of shit out of him as soon as we were big enough. Ask your husband if this is what he wants your family life to be like.

well done nocake

Thank you BurningBridges! That's the kind of thing I was looking for. How did your husband react when he read it?

no papers but show him this

your DH, for eg, is a twat

I am sorry

If he's asking for peer reviewed academic journal articles as evidence that shouting and swearing in front of children frightens them and will have long term effects - you're the one with the problem because you have to live with him.

Him trying to justify his lack of control when arguing is very irresponsible, so he's arguing really that shouting and swearing is adding to his childrens education and will set them up for what to expect when they get older.

There is no middle ground on this one, it's not good for them, they won't be unaffected by it, which only leaves it being harmful.

How do you react when he goes off on one?

YANBU at all.

Growing up, I never heard my parents argue in front of me. I occasionally heard them after I was out of the room, and there were times when I picked up on a frosty atmosphere, but for the vast majority of the time I grew up in a peaceful environment.

In fact, they argued in front of me so rarely, that I can actually remember the arguments that I did witness. And even then there was no swearing involved as they never swore in front of me either.

OP, are you hoping that when your H reads these papers he will transform into a good father ?

have you much optimism about that ?

never mind academic papers, simply ask the grown-up children of parents who did this how they feel about it

it might be anecdotal, but it is real

I remember my parents having some humdingers and feeling very upset by it. YANBU. You're husband is being an ignorant git. I appreciate that words are said in the heat of the moment but really do feel that children shouldn't witness it if possible.

Are you really going to show him 'scientific evidence' that it will harm his children OP?

That's just pandering to him isn't it? or are you really trying to find sources for an essay?

I would be very cautious of someone who didn't know this, or pretended they didn't know it, or used it as an argument as a way of proving me wrong.

There's just no silver lining in anything you've said.

Raisin - that's good but I know it will be too 'blury' for him. It doesn't specifically say that shouting and swearing in front of children are harm.