DH and I at loggerheads about moving abroad? Don't know where to go from here - help!

[ODearMe]

Hi all
I have posted on here before and here is the link:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1426300-AIBU-to-take-my-1-year-old-DS-to-the-other-side-of-the-world-to-fulfill-my-husbands-dream

I will try to keep this brief.

DH is 34, I am 31 and we have a 19 month old DS. I have been with DH for 13 years - married for 2.

DH has a dream to do something different in his life by moving to Oz and I had initially agreed to go through with it at SOME POINT in our lives. I then got pregnant and I think DH panicked about this never happening as we were now a family, and he started to get heavy about moving to Oz and did not stop going on about it - every day.

When DS was born, I was at my most vulnerable like many of us are, and although DH was happy with becoming a daddy to our little boy, there was an undercurrent that he was just so unhappy. There was/is often an atmosphere around the house, really oppressive to live in. The atmosphere boils down to the simple fact that he does not want to be in this country living the mundane - he would rather be living his dream (with us) in Oz.

In my desperation to get him out of his moodiness, I reluctantly agreed to a compromise of going there for 2 years. So, DH started the ball rolling with the VISA application.

As time went on, DH's DF was diagnosed with cancer (who I am close to), I went back to work part time - and the reality of moving abroad started weighing me down. With everything going on, it felt a huge mistake the more I thought about it and I started to feel quite depressed. Tried to talk to DH about how I felt and was met with the response 'there is nothing more to talk about - we are going around in circles', and 'oh, we are not going then are we?!' I was taken aback as this is a huge decision and I should be able to talk about it until I am blue in the face. It got to the point where it started to feel like I was being forced into it, so I really did change my mind. I even wrote him a letter high-lighting this to him and to try and get through to him. It did seem to work and it cleared the air.

The day after I gave him the letter, our VISA was rejected! It did not occur to me this would happen, and I cannot tell you the huge relief I felt as the decision was taken out of our hands. However, instead of accepting we were not welcome, DH proceeded to challenge the assessor, and our agent has also suggested i send in my CV. I have refused to do so.

DH is very cross and says I have changed my mind and I have let him down. He says I should just send it off to see what happens. I tell him, what is the point? I do not want to go! Can he not just accept we didn't get in?! I have considered sending it off just to exhaust all options but I fear they will take me on and the ball will start rolling again if DH appeals too.

We had a cards on the table chat last night and he said he doesn't want to be in this country for the rest of his life. He says I just want to stay here forever with my mum and friends (with a sneer). I am not kidding you, we have a fantastic life and are so privileged to have wonderful family and friends, and I am so happy here. I really have no reason to move. I am concerned DH wants to go even though his DF is ill; DH is naive to think that because the tumour has gone, he is cured! He hears what he wants to hear IYSWIM.

I am concerned that if I do compromise and go for 2 years as agreed that DH will want to stay and then I will be trapped (you cannot take your child out of OZ without other parent's consent or it is seen as child abduction). It is unrealistic this would happen but it is a risk I am not willing to take.

We are at loggerheads as he wants to go as much as I want to stay and neither will back down.

Sorry this has gone on, there is more to it but it will go on forever but what I really want to know is:

1. AIBU for changing my mind. I know I should have been strong enough t say no in the first place but I wasn't.
2. What do i do about this situation? WWYD?

FYI - DH is quite a head in the clouds character and is always looking at the 'next thing' so I know that even if we uproot ourselves for him, there will always be 'the next thing'.

Thanks for reading.

to be honest , whatever you decide, one of your will end up resenting the other

i cant really see anyway forward frankly. One of you will become so resentful that the other has ruined their life, the marriage will probably end up very bitter

That's keeping it brief?

Yikes. I have to agree with BTNT, I can't see a way through this without one of you resenting the other.

The only thing I can suggest is to keep talking about it between you and see if one of you yields or there is some other compromise.

Does it have to be Oz? Or just a new country? What is your marriage like apart from this and his 'moodiness'?

Yes I know Proud - very brief

I just realised that I was doing my best to support him by saying I would go, but when I got wobbly about it, and I didn't get the same level of support back- I decided it wasn't right to go. I tried hard for him not to resent me and was surprised when I had started to resent him.

It's horrible situation. The marriage is usually good but it is difficult to know for sure at the moment because this is a huge cloud over it. This has been going on a long time and clearly coming to a head now.

He wants to go to Oz because he thinks it is a booming economy and he will get a job out there easily. Sorry to drip feed but he hates his current job and cannot get a new one as the work isn't here. I do think a large part of his dissatisfaction with his life is that he hates his job.

I agree with the pp that resentment is unavoidable, and I don't think your fears about custody are unrealistic - such things need to be considered when making such massive decisions.

The only things I can think of are:

• is there another way of your DH curing his itchy feet, such as a 1 year round the world trip? Why does it have to be Oz in the first place?
• Why is he so unhappy here and how does he think his life is going to massively improve by moving ? He is still going to be the same person, with the same baggage, but he's latched on to an ideal.
• would he consider moving somewhere that didn't have the Visa issues, ie easier to move in and out? It would really worry me about the child abduction thing, because honestly, if you go expecting to come back and he doesn't want to, well, it is very likely that it will ruin your relationship.
• linked to my other point, but he really doesn't sound very happy - can he get some sort of counselling?
• is there any possibility of him moving anywhere else through his work, which would be a temporary thing, but you experience life somewhere else?

Sorry, am sure you've considered it all already.

Can he not retrain? Easier said than done I know, but people do it. Get a job with some international travel?

He sounds like a "grass is greener" sort of person, the type who believes that if one thing in their life changed, everything would be better. The thing is with people like that is that the one thing changes, things don't get better, so they move onto the next thing and they are never satisfied.

Moving to Oz is a very big deal and it really isn't fair of your DH to pressure you.

In your position I would say once and for all to DH that I do not want to go, end of, and suggest counselling to help get through the whole mess. If he's not interested in counselling and is still fixated on going then I'm not sure what you can do. One thing you must not do is let him hold this over your head and make you feel bad about it forever. A line must be drawn under it somehow.

Camperfan - thank you for those suggestions and for your empathy. To answer your questions:

1. We have already been on an around the world trip. DH has been on another trip previous to that as well so it isn't as though he is deprived of the big wide world.

2.He thinks his life will improve because the weather will afford us the opportunity to have more of an outdoorsy beach life, more active - something exciting in our lives. He thinks he will get a better job, better upbringing for DS. He is discontent with where we live because it is a village where we grew up basically and doesn't want to live and die here. I don't either - have suggested we move to a city but he won't entertain it and it is only Oz he would make the move for. (I even suggested Majorca coz it is closer but he says there is no work).

1. He won't do counselling - stiff upper lip kind of guy. He had car crash so this might have given him the live fast attitude - and I have picked up he has a fear of growing old. God, this is deep!
2. Job with international travel - good idea, I might suggest that.

Thanks

If he didn't get a visa he obviously doesn't have the work skills they're looking for.
So what does he intend to do when he gets there?
What do you do Op, that makes him think you can get one one
He sounds totally pie in the sky.
It's such a huge move, you'll have to find accommodation and jobs, before you go, and from what I've heard Oz isn't cheap.

His job is professional but he didn't have suitable references. He can delve into it and get a suitable reference that would start the VISA in motion again.
LadyB - I do not have a skilled job. If they won't let Dh in, there is no way they will let me in.

How well off are you? Oz is only a couple of flights away and is a good place for bringing up kids imo but that depends on whether you have the money to come and go.

Are you sure about not taking child out of country (Oz) if you decided to split up? Surely that would be the case only if you were Oz passport holders. Don't you need a company to sponsor you? or have careers on the list of required workers eg nurses, engineers, IT specialists to get a work visa?

Go to britishexpats.com/forum/ to check your information.

Were you given a reason for the Visa rejection decision?

I'm Australian, though I don't live there (haven't for years).

It's true that the economy there is booming, especially in the west. However as a result everything is bloody expensive - when everyone has a lot of money, prices go up. So whether or not your OH would be relatively prosperous is hard to say. Housing prices are through the roof right now. I was over at Christmas visiting family and was absolutely gobsmacked at how much things cost now compared to ten years ago.

We are happy and settled in NL so have no thoughts of moving there, but if we did, we would not be able to afford the lifestyle we have now (both work part-time). We would both be flat out working full-time just to afford a place to live and 2 cars, which are pretty much essential there.

That said I can hardly fault your OH for having itchy feet, after all it was the same for me, I wanted to get away and see the world. As soon as I finished uni I was off and lived in NZ and the UK before coming here. (The difference, of course, is that I was single and didn't have to take anyone else's wishes into account.)

Your OH is right that weather makes a major difference. However not all of Australia has great weather - it is mostly better than the UK mind you! I lived in Perth for about 10 years and it has a fantastic outdoor lifestyle. Things are just easier there. But like I said, it is now incredibly expensive.

The thing is, if you have children with someone and you want to move and they don't then that's it, end of. So he is going to have to accept that you do not want to move there (and I understand your reasons for not wanting to go for two years and see what happens, as you have a child, it would mean you were stuck there. I am 'stuck' in NL as my son was born here and has a Dutch father, but that's no problem for me as I thought it through beforehand and knew exactly what I was getting into. Being trapped in Australia if you turn out not to like it would be a total nightmare.)

So yeah, your OH needs to accept that he won't be going there with you and DS. He can either go on his own (though he can't get a visa), go to counselling with you to work through your differences, or try a smaller move in the meantime. Trying to bully you into it is not an acceptable solution.

This is really harsh but this is the way I see it: if you had a cards on the table chat last night (always a good thing) and it turns out that you want different things, then you need to either split or find a compromise. I am not suggesting that you split! But he needs to become open to finding a compromise and talking it through with a third party, otherwise he is going to have to go on his own. That's obviously not what either of you want at this stage.

What does he actually know about Oz? Has he been before? Is there a specific job he thinks he's going to get? Does he know anyone there? Loads of people emigrate to Australia every year and loads of them come back. Not that I'm knocking emigrating, but I think when it works it is more likely that they are the ones with specific skills. Have researched it really really well, know people there and are both 100% committed to the idea! It's frustrating for you that he won't consider anywhere else - you do not need to move to the other side of the world to have a more outdoorsy way of life! There are loads of places even in the UK where you can have that lifestyle. Does he have any particular outdoor activities in mind, or is he again just thinking about an image in his head? (does he want to sail or something for example).

At the end of the day, they've said no! This is not your fault and he needs to realise that and move on!

Are you sure about not taking child out of country (Oz) if you decided to split up? Surely that would be the case only if you were Oz passport holders.

I'm not a lawyer! But it sounds right to me: as I understand it, in the event of a parental split, under international law children need to stay in the place where they are settled. I don't know whether two years would count, but I should think that it did, especially with a child so young. In any case I don't think it would be a cut-and-dried "Oh it's fine for you to go back to the UK against the other parent's wishes" type deal.

The thing is, he is perfectly reasonable to want to move to Australia, and you are perfectly reasonable to want to stay here. I can't actually see any way around this. If you really don't want to go, and you have a support network of family and friends with you at the moment, I can't see you being anything other than very unhappy.

I do think, though, that with the visa rejection, the decision has been made for him and he's going to have to think of something else.

But if they're not looking for his skills (which presumably they're not if they turned down his visa app), then surely he won't get a job easily?

I know two separate groups of people who are coming back to the UK after living in Oz for several years because it's become so expensive as MyLastDuchess says

In your defense it does sound as though you have tried to reach a compromise ie. moving to Majorca or to a big UK city but he is digging his feet in in regard to moving to Australia.

I'm not really sure where a solution lies, it sounds like there'll be massive resentment no matter where you end up. I agree though that it's useless to let him hold this over you forever. He needs to understand too that 'mundane' life follows you no matter where you live. It sounds like he is illogically fixated on Australia when there are lots of other options available.

It really isn't an issue about the rejection. If you wanted to go then you would reapply. So the problem is that you don't want to go and he does. I think I would give it a go if I were you. You might love it. And it will be a great experience. But it's up to you in the end. You might even regret not going in years to come. I've not known many people to have regretted going there.

I don't think it'll help, but what does he think will be better about Oz? Has he ever lived anywhere else? I've lived quite a few places, but outside of superficial differences there's nothing magical that changes in a different country - you're still the same people, with the same problems living the same life - you just buy different brands of washing powder, and hand over differently shaped money!

Assuming your custody info is accurate, then I wouldn't go. You don't want to, you clearly love your life here and it's quite possible you wouldn't be happy - and it doesn't sound like he would be very supportive in that situation. And then you would be trapped.

Hell no!

Are you sure there isn't compromise? An adult 'gap year' wouldn't be the same as the round the world trip. Rent the house out, live frugally and see what happens. You would probably be more relaxed as you would not be cutting out any of your ties back home.

I also agree with the poster(s) who suggested looking for an expat job. You could potentially live somewhere very exotic and have the comfort of knowing you will be looked after and going home eventually.

Sounds to me like your husband really needs to commit to the family and life and make the most of what he has here. He definitely sounds like a grass is greener kind of guy! Is there anything you can do to help with that? Investigate surfing or mountain biking or whatever? You don't need to move to Australia for a more outdoorsy life, if he wants one it's here. Maybe you could suggest as a compromise that you both give it a go to build that kind of life here for a couple of years and spend weekends on outdoor activities and then discuss it again. In the meantime he might find new interests, make new friends and not mind so much...

My sister lives in an affluent part of Sydney close to the coast, and says that people are always going on about the wonderful outdoorsy beachy life they all lead out there, but these people have only ever been there on holiday. She says that once you have got a job and are locked into a mortgage it's the same as living in London or anywhere else really.

When we were last there we went for a day at the beach (10 mins drive away - fantastically beautiful) and she and her DP laughed and said to each other "we must do this more often!" - they hadn't been for months.

What job does your DH think he's going to get, BTW? Please don't tell me it's a surfing instructor...

I agree that you can be outdoorsy anywhere and in the UK it's a lot easier than many other countries. No where is hugely far from the coast if that''s what he's into and the open countryside isn't far for hill walking, mountain biking etc.