DH and I at loggerheads about moving abroad? Don't know where to go from here - help!

[ODearMe]

Hi all
I have posted on here before and here is the link:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1426300-AIBU-to-take-my-1-year-old-DS-to-the-other-side-of-the-world-to-fulfill-my-husbands-dream

I will try to keep this brief.

DH is 34, I am 31 and we have a 19 month old DS. I have been with DH for 13 years - married for 2.

DH has a dream to do something different in his life by moving to Oz and I had initially agreed to go through with it at SOME POINT in our lives. I then got pregnant and I think DH panicked about this never happening as we were now a family, and he started to get heavy about moving to Oz and did not stop going on about it - every day.

When DS was born, I was at my most vulnerable like many of us are, and although DH was happy with becoming a daddy to our little boy, there was an undercurrent that he was just so unhappy. There was/is often an atmosphere around the house, really oppressive to live in. The atmosphere boils down to the simple fact that he does not want to be in this country living the mundane - he would rather be living his dream (with us) in Oz.

In my desperation to get him out of his moodiness, I reluctantly agreed to a compromise of going there for 2 years. So, DH started the ball rolling with the VISA application.

As time went on, DH's DF was diagnosed with cancer (who I am close to), I went back to work part time - and the reality of moving abroad started weighing me down. With everything going on, it felt a huge mistake the more I thought about it and I started to feel quite depressed. Tried to talk to DH about how I felt and was met with the response 'there is nothing more to talk about - we are going around in circles', and 'oh, we are not going then are we?!' I was taken aback as this is a huge decision and I should be able to talk about it until I am blue in the face. It got to the point where it started to feel like I was being forced into it, so I really did change my mind. I even wrote him a letter high-lighting this to him and to try and get through to him. It did seem to work and it cleared the air.

The day after I gave him the letter, our VISA was rejected! It did not occur to me this would happen, and I cannot tell you the huge relief I felt as the decision was taken out of our hands. However, instead of accepting we were not welcome, DH proceeded to challenge the assessor, and our agent has also suggested i send in my CV. I have refused to do so.

DH is very cross and says I have changed my mind and I have let him down. He says I should just send it off to see what happens. I tell him, what is the point? I do not want to go! Can he not just accept we didn't get in?! I have considered sending it off just to exhaust all options but I fear they will take me on and the ball will start rolling again if DH appeals too.

We had a cards on the table chat last night and he said he doesn't want to be in this country for the rest of his life. He says I just want to stay here forever with my mum and friends (with a sneer). I am not kidding you, we have a fantastic life and are so privileged to have wonderful family and friends, and I am so happy here. I really have no reason to move. I am concerned DH wants to go even though his DF is ill; DH is naive to think that because the tumour has gone, he is cured! He hears what he wants to hear IYSWIM.

I am concerned that if I do compromise and go for 2 years as agreed that DH will want to stay and then I will be trapped (you cannot take your child out of OZ without other parent's consent or it is seen as child abduction). It is unrealistic this would happen but it is a risk I am not willing to take.

We are at loggerheads as he wants to go as much as I want to stay and neither will back down.

Sorry this has gone on, there is more to it but it will go on forever but what I really want to know is:

1. AIBU for changing my mind. I know I should have been strong enough t say no in the first place but I wasn't.
2. What do i do about this situation? WWYD?

FYI - DH is quite a head in the clouds character and is always looking at the 'next thing' so I know that even if we uproot ourselves for him, there will always be 'the next thing'.

Thanks for reading.

If your Dh is a miserable unhappy twit then moving halfway around the world will just make him a miserable unhappy expat twit. Living there isn't going to solve all his life problems, and weather isn't an excuse to move there when you'll both be to busy working to enjoy time at the beach too often.
Many of the Aussie Ex-pats I chat too say the summer heat is too much and they can't have much of the outdoorsy life the imagined.
I will second you going to www.britishexpats.com and reading there about life in OZ while there make sure to also read the returning to UK section and see why many in OZ are returning or are stuck there till the kids grow up due to divorce.
If you don't want to move, DON'T AGREE TO IT, he can't make you go.

OP I can see why you don't want to go, I wouldn't want to go.

BUT - you have always known that this was what your DH wanted to do, so why did you have a child with him and marry him knowing that his life's dream was different to yours?

There is not a cat in hell's chance that I would go somewhere where I might be forced to stay because I couldn't take my children away from that country.

I don't know how you resolve it though, and he sounds a petulant twit to be insisting it will fix all his problems.

i think i can be brief.

you are married to a fantasy merchant.
he believes all his problems will be solved if he moves to australia.
he nagged you into agreeing to go (shall we mention controlling behaviour, here?).
you don't want to go.
they don't want him.
he wants you to make it right for him to go.
you have a baby, a mum, and friends. and a nice life. why would you want to go?
he's giving you a hard time about it.

leave him.
you might split up eventually, here or in australia, because he can't be happy even under excellent circumstances and one fantasy is never enough for him. what would he be like if you all got there and he didn't like it?

but the killer blow is the thing about not being able to leave australia with your child unless he says you can. that, more than anything, says to me 'don't go'.

I don't have children but I would never move anywhere I wasn't going to be free to leave . I fully appreciate his has equal rights but he is also the one choosing to uproot the family without giving it proper consideration.

I don't know what the answer is OP, you have offered several compromises and he has turned them all down. How about he reapplies for a work visa for 6-12 months and you and the kids take an extended holiday to Oz for part of that time to see what you think of it? Would he accept that?

Both my sister and I have emigrated at the instigation of our husbands. Mine 'had the dream' and my BIL is Australian and had always wanted to go home.

Emigrating is a really really huge deal. It is incredibly expensive and disruptive. You have to be united as a family as you go through enormous stress and have only each other to rely on for a good few years before you build up a support network (which may never truly be as good as the one you have at home).

So you can't take it lightly, it's really not a blithe give it a go, what have you got to lose decision (mainly because for most of us, especially as you get older and more settled you have a great deal to lose).

I emigrated four years ago now and am very happy. dh realised pretty early on that it's not where you are but who you are with that matters, but where we are is pretty fabulous (British Columbia). I do sometimes wish he's have realised we could be happy in the UK, because we would have avoided a lot of trauma and been tens of thousands of pounds richer.

My sister moved three years ago to Melbourne Australia and hates it. Really really hates it. And she is totally stuck now, and that's a scary place to be. My BIL hated London, after 10 years she agreed to give Australia a go assuming that they would be able to come back, but BIL loves being in his home town again, and there is no compromise. It is an incredibly long and expensive way away so there are very few visits either way, even things like phone calls are difficult because of the time difference. Somewhere to go only if you are really sure that you want to for a holiday let alone a lifetime.

I just cant understand how anybody in their right mind can be hell bent on going to live in a place they have never visited.

If your husband craves the outside life why not try the south west, we have a very outside life style, and spend a lot of time in/on the water, the beach is a part of life here,

I have quite a few friends who have made the move down under, do not underestimate how hard it is to be that far away from family, and it is very hard to come back.

As someone who has emigrated, I can say wholeheartedly - don't do it unless you really want it. The first couple of years are unimaginably hard with crippling homesickness (and I was 100% behind the move). The only way you get through the initial heartache is by holding tight to your dream. If it's not your dream then you're up the creek. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Absolutely do not go. You will be trapped there if you go and hate it and DH decides to 'move on', leaving you stuck there because you can't bring your DS home. Sorry but I would not go in a million years unless it was 100% what you want to do.

Might be worth letting your DH go and give it a try - he may decide to stay there and give up on your life together in UK. But frankly if you don't go your marriage is in danger anyway. Sorry to be so blunt but you would be a fool to go.

There are so many other places you could both try. You seem to be the only one to want to compromise.
You don't want to go, stick to it Op.

Thank you for all your replies, I really appreciate it.

Quintessentially-we have both been to Oz and spent a good few months travelling around.

Aliba - my DH has not always wanted to go there. We have been together since I was 17 and he used to be a very settled character. It wasn't until he had a major car accident and then took some time out to travel after recovering that he discovered there is a big wide world out there and wanted more. Yes, I knew he had wanderlust when I married him but it wasn't until having DS that he really became serious about it.

I do take responsibility in agreeing to go with him. I feel terrible to be letting him down but this is my life as well. This is such a big deal that it really has to be both of us committed to the move.

Somebody said something about compromising with a different dream we both share. I will explore this with DH to see if we can come up with an idea we are both excited about.

Thank you all, you have been kind to me

Hello -just a thought that builds on the idea of looking for a job that involves travel -perhaps he could look at working for an Australian company in the UK? Very specific but might be the best of both worlds if it involves travel to Australia for your DP.

Also just another thought -being on holiday in a country and working there are very different. I have come to this realization after spending many years living abroad -every time I went home for a visit, it was fabulous. Took me years to work out it was fabulous because I was on holiday and not having to work!

Hope I'm not repeating others but firstly you have been rejected, reapply to see what happens (they are quite strict there) and secondly go on holiday there. The best way to see if you like it

I think the main point here to remember is that your Visa has been rejected. Even if you wanted to go, you couldn't. Just because he has what is considered a professional job here doesn't mean it is one of the professions needed in Oz for visa entry. If I were you I'd submit your CV (you could even fix your CV so its a crap one) and when that gets rejected well you've done all you can then haven't you. I find it a bit odd btw if this is such a dream of his that he was unable to stump up satisfactory references, sounds a bit odd!

I feel very sorry for both you and your husband tbh:

There is no way that you can go with so much doubt in your mind. If you were willing to give it a go there is a chance it might work out, but you can't help how you feel. I remember the previous thread and asking you to look at 2yr temporary working visas. Sadly your DH is too old for this.

I feel sorry for him because you did promise that you would back his dream. I don't think trying to tell him that his dream won't work out is a good idea. As above, really you need to find a dream you can share together where both of you compromise a little but neither of you are being stepped on.

For example, we are planning to live in my partners home country for 6 months before we emigrate to Oz. I wouldn't choose to do it that way because it massively complicates matters and it's going to be very difficult for me because of the language barrier. However, that approach seems totally reasonable because it'll be so difficult to visit in the future. Can you not steer him towards a different part of the EU?

There must also be mileage in helping him to find a job he doesn't hate. I think that must be treated as a separate issue though.

I remember your thread.

What does he think would be different about his life in Australia? Is he a sporty outdoors person now, who takes every opportunity to try new things? Because if he isn't, he won't be magically transformed into one when he gets to Australia. How would it be better? Is it just the weather? Weather is not that great in some parts of Oz - v humid up in the tropical areas. And you can lead an outdoor life here, too, you know. What would be wrong with doing that?

Emigrating is really, really hard, even when you want to go and even to an English-speaking country. I know - I've done it. And I'm not sure that Oz is as great a place for Brits to go now - there was a time when the exchange rate worked in our favour, but I don't think that's the case now. I understand the cities, particularly Sydney, are very expensive. You might end up in a boring suburb miles from a beach.

You clearly don't want to go, and I think you are right not to. Nobody should go unless their marriage is rock solid or if there is any doubt they might not be able to leave with DC in case of a split - your H might agree to a defined period now, but could easily go back on it later.

I think your options are:

1. He gets a job with international travel.
2. Move somewhere in the UK with better weather.
3. Adult gap year travelling in Australia or somewhere else (not sure how the visas work for this).
4. He moves to Australia by himself - except he can't go anyway!

Actually, if I were you, I would call his bluff if he refuses to compromise. I would tell him to go out to Australia by himself and see how he gets on with that.

I'm sorry OP, but he is coming across as a deeply selfish and deluded person, and honestly I would struggle to continue in a relationship with someone like him. Personally I would start preparing for a split.

I can understand DHs point of view. One of my friend's DHs left his well paid job in UK, went out to Oz and after a few weeks got a job and she (after continuing to work in UK for a time) and their DD followed later after house sale etc (but her DH had parent in Oz which solved VISA issue). Is this an option worth considering? Does your DH have skills where there is a shortage in Oz? Maybe consider it and give him the chance to try and get a job - at least that way he will know he gave it a go ...

Hi OP, really sympathise with you on this one - this was us 3 years ago.

DH was offered a great job in the Middle East for a min of two years. I really didn't want to go for so many reasons incl leaving a close knit family and lovely friends, my mum who is on her own now, my dog, our two children at a lovely school etc etc. Dubai isn't my type of place and basically I just like being here and we have a great life.

DH knew I didn't want to go and I said that ultimately the decision was his and I would go along with what he chose - then things at work all changed and he was given another role, responsible for Dubai and other areas but based here.

I was so relieved! I was lying about going along with what he chose, it would have been a deal breaker as I wasn't going to go. This sounds awful and he still doesn't know that. I really do love him but....

Thinking of you, its very hard and makes everything in your life come into sharp focus.

x

what fairphyllis said, everything!

if he is going to be a misery, and wont change anything here, let him go.

sorry it sounds very very tough

I remember your first thread. I am sorry that you are still struggling with this.

DH and I are both NZers, but until we were in London and had been there for almost 6 years. Felt like home for me TBH. We had DD there, now aged 18 months. We moved back to NZ last year and even though we are both NZers we have struggled. We moved to a small town, with no family or friends living locally. It has been really, really hard to make friends. I would never move anywhere again where I didn't already know at least a couple of people or somewhere that had an established expat community.

We have our fair share of friends in Australia and to be honest, the boom is ending. The Queensland Government are about to cut 14,000 jobs for example. Sydney is stupidly expensive to live in (think London). If your husband is thinking mining (which is where the boom is), he could be living in the middle of no where. There isn't much of an outdoorsy life-style in the outback...

I wouldn't be considering moving unless he was going to be earning at least AUS$100,000. That would give you a reasonable lifestyle with good housing and depending on the State access to private schooling. Would also give you a buffer of having some money for flying back to the UK for holidays and any family emergencies. How would your DH have coped with your father's illness if he had been in Australia.

People in the UK often think that NZ and Australia are some kind of Utopia. We really aren't. We have the same types of problems (and also different ones) to the UK. There are just as many outdoors opportunities in the UK as there are here - except for perhaps the beach, but then you have the whole issue of skin cancer. I burn in less than 10 minutes in New Zealand...

My UK-born DH and I moved to my home country of NZ last year after me living in London for 13 years, and having my 2 DC there. I was really ready to come 'home' (even though I totally thought of London as home as well) and so we decided to make the move.

We've been back here 16 months and so are still in the 2-years adjustment period, but we have both found it so, so hard. I actually can't quite believe how hard I have found it returning to my home country.

My DH and I have a very solid relationship - we are a total team and work through everything together. Everything we do, we do with complete solidarity. Bearing all this in mind, the fact that we've found this move so hard makes me really feel extremely anxious for you, ODear.

I have friends here; my best friend's husband and my DH get on really well, but even then - we miss our London life so much - DH misses his family and huge circle of old friends like crazy.

It's still too early for us to decide what we're going to do long-term, but not a day goes by when I don't miss our London life. Like you (i.e. just you; not your DH), we didn't leave because we were unhappy or disenchanted with the UK. And that makes it so much harder to settle in the new place. If you're desperate to leave and want the 'new life' as your DH does, you'll probably settle more easily. If you don't, it's very possible that you will struggle. So the two of you could go and live side-by-side, but have totally different experiences.

Infiltrating social circles and making friends as well, this takes time, time, time. It slimy does not happen overnight. At least, not when you're out of your whirlwind 20s and able to socialise at he drop of hat, responsibility-free. In your 30s with (young) kids, it's a much slower progress.

The cost here is quite unbelievable. Housing is astronicmal. Food is eye-wateringly expensive. Just everything. There's not as much choice (because it's such a long distance to export to) and what there is is so expensive.

And to whomever said she never hears about people regreting emigrating, oh, they do...! I posted about my situation under a different name not too long aer we moved and absolutely loads of people came on to say they felt the same way. It's very common.

Definitely don't go if there is a risk that you cannot take your child out of Australia.

Your Dh needs to grow up IMO. He seems very selfish and manipulative.

Your husband is just not being realistic.

The chances of his appeal being successful are probably not great. Typically, if your application is in good standing, it's approved. There have to be reasonable grounds for turning down an application.

My family and I have been through this process. It was, in your husbands, defence, the best thing we have ever done. That's not to say, however, it wasn't the HARDEST thing we've ever done.

You would be mad to undertake this sort of move, or even contemplate it if you heart was not 150% in it. The expense, the trauma of leaving loved ones behind (I cried so hard the day we left I thought my chest was going to be sore for a week), the upheaval for you and your child. Not to mention the stress of learning to live life in a completely new place - Australia may be English speaking but that's where the similarities stop. It's as many miles away in distance as it is in culture, history and everything you know to be familiar.

Your husband is bullying you into doing what he wants to cope with leftover trauma from his accident. You need to stand up to him and say NO. Stringing him along with half hearted maybe's is only prolonging things and giving him the power to turn it around on you and make it all your fault, now that it is not looking likely to work out.

Your husband needs help to come to terms with what the accident did to him psychologically. He doesn't need to compound his issues with an international relocation.

Interesting reading others' experiences.

My DH had always wanted to emigrate (NZ in this case) and we agreed to try it for 2 years (before DC1 was old enough to start school). I didn't want to go - I have a family and friends in the UK, I had a good job there (I was and am the only wage-earner in our family, he's a sahp) - but it was his dream and I agreed to support him in realizing it because I love him.

That was 2009 - we're still here, we love the outdoors life that it allows us (even in the rain), we love the scenery, we love the way our boys are growing up. So for us it worked.

Oh and to whoever asked if your DH did outdoorsy stuff in the uk because he won't magically become outdoorsy if he moves - not necessarily true, I was the most indoors person until we moved here and I now bike, run, kayak, tramp, camp and adore the outside.

The one key difference here is that while I wasn't keen on going (and my husband was) we weren't going because we were dissatisfied with our uk life, far from it. We loved our uk life. However he wanted to try NZ life so we moved for a positive (wanting to go to the new place) as opposed to a negative (wanting to leave the old place).

Agree with everyone if you really don't want to go and he really does, whatever decision you finally come to I suspect someone is going to resent the other one which may cost you your marriage. Have you absolutely driven it home to him that that is the price he may have to pay for living his dream?

I agreed to try and on that basis my husband agreed that if I didn't absolutely love living here, he wouldn't complain about moving back to the uk after 2 years. Would your DH agree to move back in 2 years for you? And would you trust him to honour that?