DH and I at loggerheads about moving abroad? Don't know where to go from here - help!

[ODearMe]

Hi all
I have posted on here before and here is the link:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1426300-AIBU-to-take-my-1-year-old-DS-to-the-other-side-of-the-world-to-fulfill-my-husbands-dream

I will try to keep this brief.

DH is 34, I am 31 and we have a 19 month old DS. I have been with DH for 13 years - married for 2.

DH has a dream to do something different in his life by moving to Oz and I had initially agreed to go through with it at SOME POINT in our lives. I then got pregnant and I think DH panicked about this never happening as we were now a family, and he started to get heavy about moving to Oz and did not stop going on about it - every day.

When DS was born, I was at my most vulnerable like many of us are, and although DH was happy with becoming a daddy to our little boy, there was an undercurrent that he was just so unhappy. There was/is often an atmosphere around the house, really oppressive to live in. The atmosphere boils down to the simple fact that he does not want to be in this country living the mundane - he would rather be living his dream (with us) in Oz.

In my desperation to get him out of his moodiness, I reluctantly agreed to a compromise of going there for 2 years. So, DH started the ball rolling with the VISA application.

As time went on, DH's DF was diagnosed with cancer (who I am close to), I went back to work part time - and the reality of moving abroad started weighing me down. With everything going on, it felt a huge mistake the more I thought about it and I started to feel quite depressed. Tried to talk to DH about how I felt and was met with the response 'there is nothing more to talk about - we are going around in circles', and 'oh, we are not going then are we?!' I was taken aback as this is a huge decision and I should be able to talk about it until I am blue in the face. It got to the point where it started to feel like I was being forced into it, so I really did change my mind. I even wrote him a letter high-lighting this to him and to try and get through to him. It did seem to work and it cleared the air.

The day after I gave him the letter, our VISA was rejected! It did not occur to me this would happen, and I cannot tell you the huge relief I felt as the decision was taken out of our hands. However, instead of accepting we were not welcome, DH proceeded to challenge the assessor, and our agent has also suggested i send in my CV. I have refused to do so.

DH is very cross and says I have changed my mind and I have let him down. He says I should just send it off to see what happens. I tell him, what is the point? I do not want to go! Can he not just accept we didn't get in?! I have considered sending it off just to exhaust all options but I fear they will take me on and the ball will start rolling again if DH appeals too.

We had a cards on the table chat last night and he said he doesn't want to be in this country for the rest of his life. He says I just want to stay here forever with my mum and friends (with a sneer). I am not kidding you, we have a fantastic life and are so privileged to have wonderful family and friends, and I am so happy here. I really have no reason to move. I am concerned DH wants to go even though his DF is ill; DH is naive to think that because the tumour has gone, he is cured! He hears what he wants to hear IYSWIM.

I am concerned that if I do compromise and go for 2 years as agreed that DH will want to stay and then I will be trapped (you cannot take your child out of OZ without other parent's consent or it is seen as child abduction). It is unrealistic this would happen but it is a risk I am not willing to take.

We are at loggerheads as he wants to go as much as I want to stay and neither will back down.

Sorry this has gone on, there is more to it but it will go on forever but what I really want to know is:

1. AIBU for changing my mind. I know I should have been strong enough t say no in the first place but I wasn't.
2. What do i do about this situation? WWYD?

FYI - DH is quite a head in the clouds character and is always looking at the 'next thing' so I know that even if we uproot ourselves for him, there will always be 'the next thing'.

Thanks for reading.

What's the thing about not being able to take her DS home if she decides to come back?

I'm afraid that knickers has a point about the visa - having just gone through the process of applying for my partner's visa for Oz, if they needed further evidence, we would usually receive a letter/email asking for that and giving 14 days to supply it. It seems unlikely they would reject an application if there was the potential for it to be approved with further support.

I wish you luck, this sounds like a real devil of a situation to be in and I hope that you find a compromise or solution that works for you both (and your child!)

We're preparing to emigrate at the end of the month, and I can second what others have said about it being very expensive to live in Oz - I've been shocked at some of the prices for things, and the exchange rate at the moment means that we won't be in a strong position financially for quite some time. But it's my partner's dream to go out there (I'm originally from there, but UK for 10 years) and I know my family can't wait to see DS and we'll have plenty of support from them as well. Doing it on your own, when you're not committed to the idea sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

Such a move would also deny your DC a relationship with any family member besides you and DH.That is so unfair.Have you put that arguement to him?Then it becomes less a battle between what he wants versus what you want.

Good luck!

It sounds to me like the op's husband feels like he's living the wrong life.

I think a lot of people feel this way, but are too afraid to do anyhting about it. Especially when the prevailing culture is that you should just be grateful for what you've got.

OP, I think you've got to accept that your DH is not going to just settle for a life he doesn't want because it satisfies you. But nor should you feel compelled to follow him...

BTW, I think I would go. It sounds like an adventure. And I love an adventure, me .

I think you are offering lots of compromises - a big UK city, or a move to a European country - it doesn't have to be little village home town life OR huge move to the other side of the world.

If he really can't compromise at all and it's his dream or nothing, then he is being very unreasonable.

But wordfactory the OP has tried to compromise, she has suggested city living, Spanish living, both were turned down.

I can understand he doesn't want to live in the same village all his life but it can't just be his way or the highway. There needs to be give and take on both sides.

Great minds Rubirosa!

I also think you would be beyond crazy to risk going somewhere that you might not be able to leave with your child.

I remember your previous posts.

I do think your DH is being unreasonable but not sure what you can to to make him see that. He sounds very obsessed with it all.

I'd love to move to Oz. Have talked about it briefly with DH who said flatly that he won't ever consider it. So thats, that. Obviously I'd prefer it if he'd been interested but I've never tried to nag him about it, etc.

Its such a huge thing to do that unless both people on on board with it it ain't going to happen. Or shouldn't do.....and if it does it'll end in tears.

I do have a lot of work friends who have been and moved to Oz, some have stayed but quite a few have come back. One of my friends said its all very nice, yadda, yadda but you don't get time to do the fun stuff, live the dream, etc. You still have to go to work, its all very expensive, horrible spiders, etc. Grass isn't always greener. Its not all surfing and going to the beach.

How would you feel/would it be practical if you both took a sabbatical for 6 months and went there and travelled. He saw some of the stuff he wants to see, etc. Or do you think it would just fire him up more?

"I do have a lot of work friends who have been and moved to Oz, some have stayed but quite a few have come back. One of my friends said its all very nice, yadda, yadda but you don't get time to do the fun stuff, live the dream, etc. You still have to go to work, its all very expensive, horrible spiders, etc. Grass isn't always greener. Its not all surfing and going to the beach."

LOL. My cousin and her family moved to Australia and lived the dream and, after a bit, she realised it was just like Neighbours and really very dull!

DH is quite a head in the clouds character and is always looking at the 'next thing' so I know that even if we uproot ourselves for him, there will always be 'the next thing'

This is the real danger sign. You are being asked to give up all stability and take a huge risk, with no guarantee that your DH will really graft to make it work. He may just decide after 18m in Oz that actually, you should all move to Singapore, or the US. It will make you dependent on him, so any future 'next things' will be harder to withstand. I wouldn't do it in your place.

I'm also interested that he's vetoed an intermediate move, e.g. out of your village to a city. It's his dream or nothing?

In your position I would say once and for all to DH that I do not want to go, end of, and suggest counselling to help get through the whole mess. If he's not interested in counselling and is still fixated on going then I'm not sure what you can do. One thing you must not do is let him hold this over your head and make you feel bad about it forever. A line must be drawn under it somehow.

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement.

I also agree with everything MyLastDuchess says - excellent post.

I remember your other thread. Your DH is being an unreasonable, bullying brat. You do not want to go, his visa app was rejected. I completely agree with MyLastDuchess.

Look, I'm from abroad, but I moved here 100% wanting to be here. It was still difficult. Unimaginable, IMO, if I hadn't wanted to be here.

You put the cards on the table, he's still carping on about it. Well, guess he needs to retrain and find another way to get a visa.

And NO chance, none, I'd consent to your DS going with him.

Wherever you go, there you are!

Please hold your ground. Your DH is running away, and the problem is that he can't run away from himself. He is obviously unhappy/dissatisfied with his lot, feels life should be more like a film.... I don't think it's a coincidence that having a baby made him more petulant.

If you can have a good enough relationship with your support network to hand, you can kiss it goodbye when you're the other side of the world.

I also weep on a regular basis, to be back in London. I live in probably one of the most salubrious suburbs of Sydney and it is isolating, baffling, too hot, too wet (yes, really), our money goes nowhere (more on that perhaps) and the beaches - we're also 15 minutes from the beaches you see on things like Home and Away, but we see them maybe a couple of times a year. You can't get to anywhere else (so he can kiss travelling goodbye), unless he makes squillions.

We have been here 5 years. In that time we have bought a house and had another child. Our mortgage when up 30% in 18 months. Our utilities went up 17% last year alone. By June each year we've been here we've spent enough on doctors and other medical expenses to warrant the special extra help - that's $2000 btw. It's an insane idea.

yes, we have a big mortgage, and that's because DH wanted to be very close to his family (otherwise why come all thsi way)..but even with a median price property, you would need to be earning over 100k sterling I estimate, to be able to afford something with a spare room. Most places you also definitely need 2 cars because there is NO public transport you can rely on.

Plenty more sobering facts if you want them, otherwise, just hold your ground, and tell him Oz will still be here in 2 years.

PS - No reason to feel guilty about not keeping your promise - it isn't a level field, you've had a baby, and he's become irrational.

I just cant understand how anybody in their right mind can be hell bent on going to live in a place they have never visited.

This made me laugh. It's true, though. I've occasionally watched that programme 'Wanted Down Under' and in the last one I saw, one half of a couple seemed literally hell bent on 'choosing Australia' despite all the 'reality checks' of being informed she could only afford a smaller house than her home in the UK (this was Perth btw), that she would have to work full-time along with her DH to afford the mortgage (instead of part-time as in the UK) and would be commuting 2 hours everyday! (And her reason for going to spend more time together as a family! Madness.) Oh, and her DH really didn't want to go, neither did the children. In the end the whole family 'chose Australia' because she wanted it so much. Totally irrationally. I wonder if they went in the end.

I was just about to suggest Wanted Down Under (which I became slightly obsessed with when I was on maternity leave). Basically families 'try out' living in Australia/NZ. It really shows how hard it is and often gives them a bit of a reality check - would he consider applying do you think?!

www.gettingdownunder.com/how-to-apply-for-series-7-of-the-bbcs-wanted-down-under/

I think you're perfectly within your rights to change your mind, especially when he's been so bullish about it from the start.

My advise would be to get to the bottom of his issues here before he decides that Oz will cure them. I would not agree to anything unless he can explain clearly and rationally what his issue is with living in England.

He can't guarantee the jobs, friends and lifestyle in Oz that he claims will make his life better.

You can guarantee feeling cut off and isolated when starting from scratch building relationships - if you are both comfortable with making new friends then that then it's not a problem but it doesn't sound like you are ready to be cut off from everything.

We emigrated when I was young and I do not have happy memories of living with my mother's depression that was caused by being in a different continent to her family and friends.

OP I dont really have anything to add to previous responses, other than I completely empathise with you. DH is just the same. We did live in Sydney for 15 months, and I was torn as to whether we should come back to the UK, but when I found out I was pg with DS1 I made the decision to return. DH never wanted to come back - he has constantly nagged me to return, but he has finally relented (6 years on). Well, there are still the odd comments but essentially he has stopped trying.

I do feel bad for him - there was always one of us going to be unhappy with the situation. Theres no way we could afford to go back to Sydney now, even on his large salary (well it would be large, if we were there) If we did go, as you said, I'd be stuck there forever. I don't believe its 'better' for our children. Soon he will be too old to apply for a visa anyway. I completely understand the relief you felt when you were denied the visa. I felt that when DH told me he would stop nagging and accept we werent going. I hope you can work it out x

Thank you all - blimin Australia!!!! (no offence Australians)

I am going to talk to DH again tonight to see if we can reach another compromise that isn't so far fetched as the other side of the planet.

I just feel sick about the whole situation for 2 reasons:

1. even if we do end up splitting over this, DH cannot go anyway because of DS.
2. If I choose not to go, he will resent me forever, and if I choose to go, there is a likelihood I will resent him forever. It is a no win situation!

I agree with the others, it is hard enough when you are the one really wanting to move, I can't imagine how miserable it would be if you didn't want to be there.

I wanted to move to Montreal, I have been there a couple of times and really like it and thought it would be a good move for our kids. I was thinking a year or two. Dh was set against it though so that was that, we stayed put. So while I understand the wanderlust thing (and for me it isn't to escape something, it is just I love different places and life is short and I want to make the most of it) but seeing as we couldn't agree we just decided to keep the status quo. We live in a wonderful part of the world and have a good life.

If he isn't interested in compromise then he will just have to either like it or lump it.

You also live in the UK Op.
There are so many places to go and places to see accessible from here both in Europe, Africa the Far East...
If your dh has wanderlust he will get bored living in one place.
Why can't you just have wonderful holidays instead.
What outdoor activities does he like BTW?

He likes fishing, go-karting, mountain biking but he only does those things when it isn't raining!

We do have wonderful holidays already - we are going to Mexico in November!

Seems to me that you're stressing over nothing when your visa app has been denied. You can't go even if you wanted to. Surely he'll just have to accept that he doesn't have the skills required for current visa entry?

I know what you are saying XiCi - and it did make me smile when you said about sending over a crappy version of my CV.

I am just afraid it will all go ahead again - and then I would be leading him on again by going through with an appeal.