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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that "sexual harassment" is a bit strong to describe this event?

614 replies

BartiiMus · 14/09/2012 10:22

At a training session with work. 3 days, 2 nights on-site.

Around midnight (not long after the people concerned have left the bar), man A rings woman B and asks for a code to connect to the internet (we use password tokens and he'd forgotten his).

Woman says fine, come to my room. Man goes to room, then confesses he didn't come for that at all and tries to kiss her. She refuses. Man is confused saying he thought they had a "connection" earlier in the evening but she denies it. He leaves the room.

A few days later woman B tells my colleague about it. She was half-laughing about it and said she wasn't going to report it.

Last night at a party my colleague told us that there'd been "sexual harassment" during the training this summer but refused to say who had been involved. After a bit of coaxing and lots of clues from him we worked out who the man had been, and our colleague confirmed it.

I know him, I've worked with him before and he's a nice bloke. I'm not saying he didn't do this but he tried it on, was refused and left. Is that really "sexual harassment"?

To be honest, I'm a bit pissed off with the gossip colleague who told us all because it's a bit of a non-event (man tries to pull woman, woman refuses, man leaves) but he's usually highly emotive language like "sexual harassment" to describe it. She's not even reporting it. The man isn't her boss or anything and they don't work together.

I know I probably don't have all the story but I do know the gossip well and he does love to exagerate and I don't think it's very fair to man A to have people slinging mud at him like this.

So, deep breath AIBU?

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 14/09/2012 12:07

LRD, could you show me the harrassment, because I cant see any, at all.

One person tries for a kiss, other person does not reciprocate. End of story.

Pendeen · 14/09/2012 12:07

fluffyraggies

That's how I read the situation as well.

One action does not constitute harassement in the legal sense whatever the opinions of the MN jury - or does someone have a specific reference?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 14/09/2012 12:08

I've already explained. It's not rocket science.

HE LIED TO HER IN ORDER TO TURN UP TO HER, ALONE AND LATE, AND TRIED TO KISS HER. AND YOU KEEP IGNORING THAT.

Sorry for caps but you appear to have selective blindness to lowercase.

DixieD · 14/09/2012 12:10

winkly you are right of course, I have no idea how she felt. The point I was trying to make is that it is more difficult and awkward to rebuff advances in a private setting when you have no idea how he will react, than in a public place like a bar.

seeker yes that's exactly how it happens, or at least for me and DH it did. We would have all socialised as a big group, and spent a lot of time together within the group, but the relationship didn't kick off until that first snog. Same with most relationships in the same company. Probably a factor of our age. We were all early 20s and snogging was nearly always the first step after flirting, chatting etc. Cinema trips, drinks as a couple and dinners came later and usually signified a move towards a more serious relationship.

MissPerception · 14/09/2012 12:10

I think most of you shouting sexual harrasement must be about 25 years old and have no experience of the world.

It's harrasement but please don't put the sexual harrasement label on it. Sometimes, people are just a pain in the neck / harrassing

seeker · 14/09/2012 12:11

"It's a man being a pain in the arse. Same as if it was a woman doing the same thing. "

Agreed. It's also sexual harassment.

ShiirleyKnott · 14/09/2012 12:12

I don't know why you're being so rude MissPerception. Hmm

geegee888 · 14/09/2012 12:12

Unfortunately I think this thread shows that there are some women out there who are so conditioned to think that any male attention is a bonus, no matter how unwelcome, that everyone must feel the same, no matter how inappropriate.

I really do not see how anyone can fail to see the sexual harassment element of this is because it is work related. It is not simply a case of a man asking for a kiss and being turned down.

Its like going back to the dark ages sometimes.

squeakytoy · 14/09/2012 12:12

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WinklyFriedChicken · 14/09/2012 12:13

But perhaps he thought he was actually being decent, not hitting on her in a bar, where she might have been embarrased? Maybe, in thinking she liked him, he was calling up with a blatantly flimsy excuse, knowing that she could have told him the information over the phone or at the door without letting him in? Perhaps he thought she liked him and yes, took it as a sign she was interested, not because he's an arsehole but because he's a human being taking a chance on someone he's attracted to and hoping she feels the same?

WilsonFrickett · 14/09/2012 12:15

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ShiirleyKnott · 14/09/2012 12:15

Godwins Law.

You lost.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 14/09/2012 12:16

Coming from certain circles, it's a compliment, wilson. Wink

OhSoSimple · 14/09/2012 12:17

OP if the woman he made a pass at laughed it off and did not feel threatened/intimidated/harassed then YANBU to think other people should not be going around shouting sexual harassment.

Over the years at work, even when married I have received various comments via phone, email and in person and I have never felt "sexually harassed".

I think it is how the incident is taken that is the key - if she was offended/upset then it would be harassment. You said she laughed it off and did not want to make an issue of it as they are not in same dept. so surely it is not harassment?

squeakytoy · 14/09/2012 12:18

The woman herself who this happened to does not even consider it to be sexual harassment. But I suppose she is an idiot who has been "conditioned" according to some of you.

Seriously, it would amaze me that some of you can get through every day without accusing a man of doing something wrong.

The postman smiles as he hands you the post. Quick call to the sorting office to put in a complaint for his inappropriate behaviour.

The bus driver says "hello love", another call to the depot to report him for sexual harassment.

Man on the bus offers you his seat. He gets a filthy look and accused of being sexist.

God forbid any man try to chat any of you up eh!

seeker · 14/09/2012 12:19

"tried to kiss her" is very different to "asked for a kiss"

iscream · 14/09/2012 12:20

I don't live in the UK, but my friends dh (in his 50's) lost a very good job with a lot of seniority, because he did not file a sexual harassment complaint made by a woman. That a fellow workmate tried to kiss her. It has to have a report filed regardless of his or anyone elses opinion. The people hired to deal with these things will take over from there, and make a fair decision on what they do.
I only read the first post, as I have to leave, but thought I'd mention this. Perhaps there is more to your story and you have a resolution anyways, but there you go.

MrsHelsBels74 · 14/09/2012 12:20

The night I met my husband I took him outside the bar we were in & snogged him...luckily he was interested. Does this mean our marriage was based on sexual harassment. Sheesh!

LRDtheFeministDragon · 14/09/2012 12:21

I don't get through the day without it, squeaky.

Indeed, if nothing has gone wrong by supper time I force myself to watch Gideot/ Piers Morgan until I have suitably discharged by ire.

It's a tough, tough world.

I don't think you've much experience of men chatting you up if you think it all sounds like that, though. Smile

iscream · 14/09/2012 12:22

Oh course, I don't know all of the details of my friends husbands firing and she may have left out things. So I guess my post above is heresay.

squeakytoy · 14/09/2012 12:23

Oh believe me, I have plenty of experience of being chatted up. I have also had plenty of blokes try to kiss me when we have been in a bar. I have said no, they have accepted that. Never in a million years have I considered it to be any sort of harassment.

EldritchCleavage · 14/09/2012 12:23

I'm getting quite depressed by this thread (and I'm not 25, inexperienced in the ways of the world or naive).

It isn't the case that it is always the woman's responsibility to say no, or jump through whatever hoops to make sure the man knows she would say no. It is the man's responsibility to establish clearly that she is saying yes before he does anything to/with her.

Rather than 'Oh, there is consent unless/until she makes a fuss' try thinking 'There is no consent unless she distinctly, unequivocally tells or shows me there is.' If men did that, an awful lot of problematic and nasty situations would never arise.

And the terms man and woman are interchangeable. The point is, don't initiate sexual contact/chat/whatever unless you've established the other person would welcome it.

Narked · 14/09/2012 12:23

'The bus driver says "hello love"'

A man lies to get into a colleague's hotel room at a work conference and tries to kiss her

Because those situations are exactly the same Hmm

LRDtheFeministDragon · 14/09/2012 12:24

Really?

You do surprise me. Well done you.

geegee888 · 14/09/2012 12:24

SqueakyToy "The woman herself who this happened to does not even consider it to be sexual harassment. But I suppose she is an idiot who has been "conditioned" according to some of you."

No, probably because like so many women in this unwanted position, she doesn't want to be labelled a troublemaker, or to make a fuss.

Someone coming to your room, unwanted and unbidden, after simply speaking to them in a bar, on some pretext of a lie, is pretty horrible actually.

Why the lie? Why did he not say ask to her if he could come round to her room later?

It is sexual harassment in the workplace because the courts would consider the workplace to include work related trips and stays over in hotels.

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