to think that "sexual harassment" is a bit strong to describe this event?

[BartiiMus]

At a training session with work. 3 days, 2 nights on-site.

Around midnight (not long after the people concerned have left the bar), man A rings woman B and asks for a code to connect to the internet (we use password tokens and he'd forgotten his).

Woman says fine, come to my room. Man goes to room, then confesses he didn't come for that at all and tries to kiss her. She refuses. Man is confused saying he thought they had a "connection" earlier in the evening but she denies it. He leaves the room.

A few days later woman B tells my colleague about it. She was half-laughing about it and said she wasn't going to report it.

Last night at a party my colleague told us that there'd been "sexual harassment" during the training this summer but refused to say who had been involved. After a bit of coaxing and lots of clues from him we worked out who the man had been, and our colleague confirmed it.

I know him, I've worked with him before and he's a nice bloke. I'm not saying he didn't do this but he tried it on, was refused and left. Is that really "sexual harassment"?

To be honest, I'm a bit pissed off with the gossip colleague who told us all because it's a bit of a non-event (man tries to pull woman, woman refuses, man leaves) but he's usually highly emotive language like "sexual harassment" to describe it. She's not even reporting it. The man isn't her boss or anything and they don't work together.

I know I probably don't have all the story but I do know the gossip well and he does love to exagerate and I don't think it's very fair to man A to have people slinging mud at him like this.

So, deep breath AIBU?

So, initiating a relationship goes like this
a) a chat over drinks at the end of a working day, and discovery of a mutual liking for the films of Christopher Nolan.
then, an hour later, b) kissing.

Really? No "Fancy a drink next Thursday?" No "Prestige is on next week- want to come and see it?"

Wiki says:
Sexual harassment refers to persistent and unwanted sexual advances, typically in the workplace, where the consequences of refusing are potentially very disadvantageous to the victim.

I was looking up the word harassment because to me it does seem to suggest repeated behaviour. Maybe we need a different terminology.

I'm still on the fence here.

I think context is everything. If this guy was sure of a connection why didn't he make a move of some sort in the bar beforehand? Instead he manufactured an excuse to get into her hotel room. And btw I don't think she is in any way to blame for inviting him to pick up the token. Those codes change regularly, and he may have wanted to log in again later or next morning.
Of course trying to kiss someone in a work environment/ office is inappropriate. But work colleagues often kiss in social situations and someone has to move first. In my case it was me, but I don't think trying to kiss someone in itself is sexual harassment.
However in this incidence I think this man engineered a situation whereby he put the woman in a very uncomfortable and awkward position by tricking her to invite him into her room. it is difficulty to assert yourself and say no if you are worried about being vulnerable. And she must have felt so.

And in fact reading the OP again, she never even said that the people involved had any conversation in the bar.

You're also ignoring the fact that he tried to kiss her in a hotel room where she'd let him in voluntarily after midnight.

You are completely ignoring the fear factor here.

No man who is reasonable puts a work colleague in that position. It is absolutely unreasonable to do so and if you genuinely like someone, you won't do that.

It's absolutely different from asking someone if they fancy going for a coffee while you're standing by the photocopier.

The latter isn't harassment. The former is.

But what then seeker? She thinks its just a colleague wanting to share a mutual love of a film, then he tries to kiss her and she doesn't want it? Still harassment?

My DH has spent a lot of nights in bars with work colleagues. And them come to his room because they'd forgotten things - and in one case managed to lock themselves out of their room semi naked at 2 in the morning. If they'd tried it on with him because they 'felt a connection' would that be ok? Of course they were also men, so would that make a difference? Is it only straight women who we're assuming are up for a dalliance unless they expressly state otherwise?

blerk. someone trying to kiss you requires an invasion of your personal space, some touching, pushing, whatever... how grim that this is just the stuff of a woman's working life.

Narked Fri 14-Sep-12 11:50:20
To repeat myself, is this how some people feel life works? Every man you work with is allowed one attempt to kiss you - because he felt 'a connection' unless you start all conversations with, 'I am not interested in you sexually?'

I can't see anyone suggesting that - but it's fair to point out that women initiate kissing with men, too, and not all of them check signals.

If I lean towards someone to kiss them, and they lean towards me... what's that? Harassment? Assault? No, probably consent.

Would I have done that lying to get to a hotel room. No. Not the right sort of place.

Dixie I think it is a wild assumption to say she found it difficult to assert herself and say no, seeing as she asserted herself, said no, and he accepted that.

I do think the women here who are shouting "sexual harassment" are probably quite naive and inexperienced.

It's a man being a pain in the arse. Same as if it was a woman doing the same thing.

Being female you need to get used to being approached in many different ways and how to deal with that.

Ditto if you are a man.

Squeakytoy "Narked, this couple had been sat talking in a bar all evening.

He fancied her, he thought she fancied him. She didnt and told him so. He left. "

And then went their seperate ways. She didn't invite him to her room. He didn't ask to see her again. He thought about it later and thought he had a chance, when in fact she was only networking for work purposes. His mistake, and work related.

I am sure an adult male is perfectly capable of working out where to draw the line between work chit chat and romance. And that there is a danger of sexually harassing someone by behaving in this manner, as opposed, for example to doing something "safer" such as asking the woman out on a date, at which point she could presumably say no and no harm done either way.

"no-one I knew fell head over heels for their future DH like this"-I did

when I met my dh there was no 'lets go for a coffee, meal etc' there was a big snog in a pub...23 years later......

In no way is this harassment. It may be construed as attempted sexual assault but it isn't harassment. It would be if he continued to leer or pursue her (or others) subsequently.

It sounds like there was some flirting in the bar, he phones to "test the water", presumably knowing that the code and be given over the phone, and she invites him to her room instead. He leans in for a kiss, is refused, leaves. Just a case of mistakes made on both sides but all is fine. Woman is apparently fine about it so it all seems to be a bit of a non-event.

Realistically, the only people who can decide are those who were in the room. We do not know what happened or what the atmosphere was like. The fact that the woman was half laughing makes it seem that she just thinks he behaved like a numpty rather than a harasser/assaulter.

misspeception the woman did deal with it.The point is that she shouldn't have had to in a work environment

I think the word "harrassment" is what's causing the confusion for some posters.

Harrassment usually means that there is a persistence of behaviour. This is not the case in the term "Sexual Harrassment", it just means that someone has behaved inappropriately.

This was definitely sexual harrassment. The whole "aw, it's just mixed signals" is so revolting. If I'm friendly and courteous to a workmate do I need to ensure that I preface any conversation with "I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU, I'M JUST BEING FRIENDLY"?

Ridicularse.

She didn't invite him to her room.

Except she did.

[naive] [inexperienced] and [patronised]

good name, btw MissPerception.

Nice try, squeaky, but you've completely left out the harrassment in your account then claimed there's no harrassment. It's ok, is it, because she stopped him from kissing her?

I don't see what you have to gain from pretending what the OP says happened, didn't happen, when we can all read the OP and see that he did lie, and he did try to kiss her, so no, they didn't just chat.

So what soupdragon?

This is all starting to sound quite a lot like "she asked for it"

grim.

Nobody is saying she asked for it.

I am saying that "it" is a bit of a non-issue.

So now we've gone on the claims that they are a couple talking in a bar and she was flirting in the bar. None of which was mentioned by the OP at all.

I do not believe this is sexual harrassment. The guy took no for an answer and left. This is how many relationships start. I also think that this overreaction from people makes a mockery of those who actually have been sexually harrassed.

'I also think that this overreaction from people makes a mockery of those who actually have been sexually harrassed.'

Bingo.

It's that old chestnut of women being seen as walking around in a state of perpetual consent until they say otherwise. And he stopped when she asked him to so round of applause and no harm done.