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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that "sexual harassment" is a bit strong to describe this event?

614 replies

BartiiMus · 14/09/2012 10:22

At a training session with work. 3 days, 2 nights on-site.

Around midnight (not long after the people concerned have left the bar), man A rings woman B and asks for a code to connect to the internet (we use password tokens and he'd forgotten his).

Woman says fine, come to my room. Man goes to room, then confesses he didn't come for that at all and tries to kiss her. She refuses. Man is confused saying he thought they had a "connection" earlier in the evening but she denies it. He leaves the room.

A few days later woman B tells my colleague about it. She was half-laughing about it and said she wasn't going to report it.

Last night at a party my colleague told us that there'd been "sexual harassment" during the training this summer but refused to say who had been involved. After a bit of coaxing and lots of clues from him we worked out who the man had been, and our colleague confirmed it.

I know him, I've worked with him before and he's a nice bloke. I'm not saying he didn't do this but he tried it on, was refused and left. Is that really "sexual harassment"?

To be honest, I'm a bit pissed off with the gossip colleague who told us all because it's a bit of a non-event (man tries to pull woman, woman refuses, man leaves) but he's usually highly emotive language like "sexual harassment" to describe it. She's not even reporting it. The man isn't her boss or anything and they don't work together.

I know I probably don't have all the story but I do know the gossip well and he does love to exagerate and I don't think it's very fair to man A to have people slinging mud at him like this.

So, deep breath AIBU?

OP posts:
blisterpack · 14/09/2012 11:25

YABU. It IS sexual harrassment.

Narked · 14/09/2012 11:25

So basically every man a women works with is entitled to do this? Unless she starts all contact with, 'I am not interested in you sexually.'

shanghailady · 14/09/2012 11:26

Not at work in the office. In a hotel room. BIG difference, work trip or not.

Narked · 14/09/2012 11:27

Are we making exceptions for women who wear wedding rings as they are obviously 'taken'?

OneMoreChap · 14/09/2012 11:27

So it's fine for men to go around kissing women because they feel there's some 'connection'? At work?

Possibly, yes.
How do you decide if you're going to kiss someone?

AFAICR, you sort of lean towards them, and if they lean towards you, tilt head up for a kiss... they might well think there's a connection, too.

If they lean away... there isn't. But surely, you wouldn't be doing that without some sort of lead-up?

Narked · 14/09/2012 11:27

On a work conference. No difference. Only in her room because he lied.

OneMoreChap · 14/09/2012 11:28

or do we aver that there should be no sexual contact between any colleagues? How do you define colleague?

shanghailady · 14/09/2012 11:29

At midnight? Come on. Yes, he lied to get into her room. Very bad. He left when she said no. Better.

cricketballs · 14/09/2012 11:29

agree with Happy on this one

MissPerception · 14/09/2012 11:30

I haven't read the posts but of course it's not sexual harassement. It's a man being an arse.

It's happened since the beginning of time.

There are also women who do this.

Those who shout "sexual harassement" cause a lot of problems.

shanghailady · 14/09/2012 11:31

And I would add, work conference or holiday or any reason for a hotel stay, if a man came into my room on false pretences and tried it on, it's bad behaviour. But work or not makes no difference.

HappyAsChips · 14/09/2012 11:31

Would it be considered sexual harassment if the roles were reversed? I doubt it. Because of course, only men try to make a move on the opposite sex when they mistakenly think there is a mutual attraction Hmm

fluffyraggies · 14/09/2012 11:33

Splinters up my bum with this one.

Why didn't she just say the code over the phone? Confused

It matters that it was midnight. I wouldn't be inviting anyone up to my room at midnight. But it shouldn't matter ConfusedConfusedConfused

Narked · 14/09/2012 11:34

How about - and I know it's breaking new ground here - we assume that a woman might not welcome advances from a particular man. Perhaps we could even Shock put the onus on the person who intends to initiate physical contact to make sure it's actually welcomed. Perhaps by asking that person to meet up with them outside of work. Or by ensuring that the first contact is eg taking the person's hand rather than their gum temperature.

FastidiaBlueberry · 14/09/2012 11:34

It absolutely is sexual harassment.

It's after midnight in a hotel room, she'd let him in voluntarily.

If he'd raped her, everyone would have said that she'd let him into her room voluntarily so therefore she'd asked for it and actually probably it wasn't rape at all because she'd prob done it consensually but then regretted it later.

She would have been well aware of that and so would have prob been scared and shocked and realising that she may well have got herself into a really dangerous situation by trusting that her colleague was a professional.

Luckily he wasn't a rapist and left, but the very fact that he put her in that position, is an abuse of power.

His power as a man who is automatically given the benefit of the doubt when he goes to a female colleague's room at midnight.

That's why reasonable men who fancy you and are pretty sure you fancy them back, don't do that in that sort of environment. That's why it's sexual harassment; if you fancy a work colleague and believe you have a "connection" with her, you ask her out for coffee/ dinner etc. - you make it clear that that's your intention, so that she has the opportunity to reject an invitation in a non-dangerous environment.

OneMoreChap · 14/09/2012 11:35

fluffyraggies Fri 14-Sep-12 11:33:46
Why didn't she just say the code over the phone?

Probably because she had an RSA token which displays a passcode that changes every 30/60 seconds?

fluffyraggies · 14/09/2012 11:36

The OP said no, it's just numbers and letters that could have been exchanged over the phone.

MySpanielHell · 14/09/2012 11:37

I have worked away from home a lot, spending long periods of time in accommodation with both men and women. When I read these threads, I wonder if many women either a. think men are largely secret sexual predators and rapists who must be spoken to like children if they are to understand the rules of civilised behaviour or b. live some kind of Fiddler on the Roof type life where you have to stand on the other side of a rope from men at social functions or you are stumbling into a 'grey area.'

That grey area is where friendship happens. How do people have friendships with men if any degree of trust, favour or friendly conversation is seen as blurring the boundaries, giving out signals etc? Helping somebody with their computer in a hotel room is not any kind of signal. It is normal, friendly behaviour between adults.

I don't know what happened in that room. All I know is that a woman told another woman who then told some other people who the OP then encouraged into gossiping and then posted about on the internet. But from what has been told, he went to her room and was dishonest in his statement. It is the most twisted logic to then say that she was the one giving off signals, messages etc. He was the one who wasn't able to be honest and was expecting somebody else to be a mind reader about his intentions. Having tried to kiss her (with no reason to believe this was what she wanted), he then started to go into this connection discussion, rather than apologise for his mistake and leave.

In short, honesty is what is required. The fact that somebody is unable to be honest is not an excuse for trying it on with your work colleague. He is an adult after all and presumably capable of making his intentions known without resorting to a pretext.

Narked · 14/09/2012 11:37

Thank you OneMoreChap

seeker · 14/09/2012 11:37

Since when has the "first move" been trying to kiss someone?

geegee888 · 14/09/2012 11:37

Of course its sexual harassment! I can't believe you would think it wasn't. They were both there for work puposes and he used a work related excuse to harass her.

He sounds a bit of a sex pest. Some people are unable to read social cues, which is definately harassment in the work environment. Does he live in some fantasy world where women drop their knickers in hotel rooms for him because they have nothing better to do? What a twat.

Midgetm · 14/09/2012 11:38

So the woman who it happened to didn't seem to think it was harassment? Just an office gossip? Then I don't think it is either. I think it is an overused word. I've had similar when away on work, told him no and he kept hounding me. Ended up having to take phone off hook and wedging chair under my door handle to keep the perv at bay. I felt really hounded, I would count that as harassment. It is how the actions make you feel that matters and the intent. Personally I think there is a million miles between a misjudged pass and harassment. Only creepy thing is making up an excuse to get in the room. Otherwise just someone who made a bad judgment call and backed off. Work romance very common, how the hell does anyone make a pass at anyone else? Do you need an acceptance certificate before you move in? He made a mistake, that is all, doesn't make him a sex pest.

FastidiaBlueberry · 14/09/2012 11:38

Absolutely seeker, "first move" - kiss?

That's Pride and Prejudice fucked then.

HappyAsChips · 14/09/2012 11:39

Oh, but if a man tried to 'take a woman's hand' without her written consent, is he not opening himself up to accusations of molestation? "Oh my goodness, he tried to hold my hand!, I feel positively violated!"

fluffyraggies · 14/09/2012 11:39

BartiiMus Fri 14-Sep-12 10:47:04

No it can be given over the phone. It's just a series of numbers and letters.