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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that "sexual harassment" is a bit strong to describe this event?

614 replies

BartiiMus · 14/09/2012 10:22

At a training session with work. 3 days, 2 nights on-site.

Around midnight (not long after the people concerned have left the bar), man A rings woman B and asks for a code to connect to the internet (we use password tokens and he'd forgotten his).

Woman says fine, come to my room. Man goes to room, then confesses he didn't come for that at all and tries to kiss her. She refuses. Man is confused saying he thought they had a "connection" earlier in the evening but she denies it. He leaves the room.

A few days later woman B tells my colleague about it. She was half-laughing about it and said she wasn't going to report it.

Last night at a party my colleague told us that there'd been "sexual harassment" during the training this summer but refused to say who had been involved. After a bit of coaxing and lots of clues from him we worked out who the man had been, and our colleague confirmed it.

I know him, I've worked with him before and he's a nice bloke. I'm not saying he didn't do this but he tried it on, was refused and left. Is that really "sexual harassment"?

To be honest, I'm a bit pissed off with the gossip colleague who told us all because it's a bit of a non-event (man tries to pull woman, woman refuses, man leaves) but he's usually highly emotive language like "sexual harassment" to describe it. She's not even reporting it. The man isn't her boss or anything and they don't work together.

I know I probably don't have all the story but I do know the gossip well and he does love to exagerate and I don't think it's very fair to man A to have people slinging mud at him like this.

So, deep breath AIBU?

OP posts:
shanghailady · 14/09/2012 11:00

No!!! YANBU!

I used to work in sales, and a lot of my customers were older men. Once after a meal out entertaining a client, I was essentially tricked into going back to his hotel because we had to go through some prototypes that he'd 'forgotten' to bring to dinner. I was so naiive... of course he tried to get me to stay, tried to kiss me... I was shocked, but I really didn't see it as harassment. We both misunderstood each other's signals. Had I realised what was on his mind, I never would have gone there. But he didn't realise I was so eager to please him all the time because he was an important customer and I was getting paid to be nice to him! He blurred the lines between professional and personal, but that's not harassment. Harassment would have been if, after I'd said 'no', he had continued to pressure me, or worse.

One last point: I've never been more turned off than by a guy who asks if he can kiss me... how unromantic. So if taking the plunge and just kissing someone equals harassment, where does that leave me?

musicmadness · 14/09/2012 11:01

I'll probably get flamed for this but that definitely does not sound like sexual harassment. He tried it on once, got told no, didn't do anything and left. He shouldn't have phoned under false pretences but that is all I can see that is really wrong. If he carried on trying it on then yes but it sounds like the guy didn't. It's calling crap like that sexual assault/harassment that makes people not bother about real complaints that come in.

If "unwelcome sexual advances" is harassment then no one can ever ask anyone out ever again, because you can't guarantee that the other person is interested until you ask them! Surely it only becomes harassment if the person doesn't back off if someone says no!

Narked · 14/09/2012 11:01

' if she was bothered by it, she should have reported it'

And with reactions like some of these I can't imagine why she wouldn't. Or why most women don't. FFS, someone has actually accused her of egging him on by inviting him to her room!

Original poster
BartiiMus · 14/09/2012 11:02

"you seem to be very angry that a work collegue was made a pass at and refused."

This has made me laugh. How did you get that from what I've said?

Agree narked (you talk a lot of sense!) he did create the situation.

OP posts:
Narked · 14/09/2012 11:03

So trying to kiss people at work is acceptable to you musicmadness? It's all fine as long as they stop if the person says they're not interested?

DixieD · 14/09/2012 11:08

Is trying to kiss someone and being rebuffed really sexual harassment. So if you try to kiss someone and they kiss you back is that attempted sexual harassment up until the point the kiss is accepted? Do not lots of relationships start with one trying to kiss the other? I assume the unwanted part is key but how is the kisser to know it is unwanted? We are not all expert mind readers. Is the solution to ask before you kiss anyone?
I kissed my DH first on a work night out. Was that sexual harassment?

shanghailady · 14/09/2012 11:08

Inviting someone to your hotel room is a grey area. It's like inviting someone to your bedroom. It shouldn't mean anything, but someone hoping for some encouragement could read more into it. I'm not excusing his behaviour, but it might explain why he misinterpreted their situation

Sallyingforth · 14/09/2012 11:10

someone has actually accused her of egging him on by inviting him to her room!
So after midnight, she invites him to visit her in her hotel room. What else would he make of it?

He didn't knock on her door, he phoned her. She could have given him the information over the phone as he would have expected. Instead of that she invited him to the room. At the very least it was a foolish thing to do.

He left as soon as he realised the misunderstanding. They were both adults and have both learned a lesson. That should be an end to it.

shanghailady · 14/09/2012 11:10

DixieD, I'm with you on this one.

Narked · 14/09/2012 11:10

'We are not all expert mind readers'

How about not lying your way into a colleague's room and trying to kiss them?

Or not lying to a rep about having left things in your room, knowing how eager they were to get your business, and trying to kiss them?

DixieD · 14/09/2012 11:11

By the way OP, I think this incident was a bit off. Not so much the kiss but the deceit in getting into her hotel room. I would feel very uncomfortable someone tryin it on in this situation as opposed to a bar for example.

DixieD · 14/09/2012 11:12

X posted with you there Narked as you can see I agree with the point about the hotel room.

TheEnthusiasticTroll · 14/09/2012 11:14

but he rang and asked for a code not a quick kiss and fondle, had he rang and said look I really fancy you I could come up to your room now and we could see what happens, if she was then not interested then surely she says no thanks, not interested.

but he didnt he asked for a code she said yeah sure come along and get the code. she should not be in a situation to have to secong guess what that may really mean.

If it where a female collegue that had called looking for the code, she she have given over the phone also.

Original poster
BartiiMus · 14/09/2012 11:14

"tryin it on in this situation as opposed to a bar for example"

Very true. She must have felt a lot more vulnerable in her room Sad

I'm glad I posted (although it's hard to have so many YABUs!) as it's really made me stop and think.

Contrary to what the OP makes me sound like I don't gossip. Yes I listened to others gossiping but I haven't passed it on and I was never intending to.

OP posts:
Original poster
BartiiMus · 14/09/2012 11:15

I suppose I'll get flamed for my last sentence as that being the definition of gossiping!

OP posts:
Narked · 14/09/2012 11:15

He lied to get 'invited' FFS.

Threads like these make me realise how much women normalise the every day low level inappropriate behaviour of men by assuming responsibility for it.

'At the very least (asking him to come by her room) it was a foolish thing to do'

'Misunderstanding'

'he misinterpreted their situation '

OneMoreChap · 14/09/2012 11:17

LRDtheFeministDragon Fri 14-Sep-12 10:55:17
To me the thing that rings warning bells is him saying to her first that he didn't come for the password.

That.

Lots of relationships start at work.
Lots of workmates kiss each other, and someone has to go first.

Sitting close together in a bar, after a successful bid, or after a long training session. Moving closer together, flirting... yep. Can see that.

You don't go to someone's room with a manufactured excuse.
He's a sleazeball looking for a shag, not a relationship.

shanghailady · 14/09/2012 11:17

Of course there are right and wrong ways to go about things and generally if there is any kind of 'trick' involved it's clearly a non-starter. Yes, agree, 'how about not' trying any of these tricks (men) but also ladies, how about we don't do bloody stupid things like inviting men into our rooms/following them to theirs if we don't want to leave ourselves vulnerable?
I'm not saying in genuine cases of harassment that the victim is in any way to blame - but just we should watch out for those grey areas and make sure our behaviour keeps us well outside of them!

OneMoreChap · 14/09/2012 11:19

Oh, and I thought it said he needed to borrow a token. Of course, he'd have had to go to her room. No dodgy signals from her at all.

His duplicity.

HappyAsChips · 14/09/2012 11:19

Oh for pity's sake!! Everyone who thinks this is sexual harassment needs to get a flipping grip! He made a move because he thought there was a mutual attraction, found out there wasn't when she refused a kiss, so left. Harassment?? Seriously, I really feel sorry for men sometimes, it seems they can't breathe without being accused of something! Jeez...

TheEnthusiasticTroll · 14/09/2012 11:20

I would not beat your self up op though you will not be the first and you will not be the last to fall fould of gossip.

shanghailady · 14/09/2012 11:21

And Narked, he did misinterpret the situation. If he was doing anything more sinister, her 'no' would not have mattered. Once he realised, he left.

shanghailady · 14/09/2012 11:22

well said, happyaschips

TheEnthusiasticTroll · 14/09/2012 11:22

well if you are honest and treat people with respect there is little room for being accused of something untoward. If you do something like trick another person into a situation where you can disrepsect at treat them with entitlement to use them, then yes expect to be accused of something along those lines.

Narked · 14/09/2012 11:23

So it's fine for men to go around kissing women because they feel there's some 'connection'? At work?

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