To think that these T-shirts are disgusting?

[GreenD]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19560284

Whatever you may think of her, this is hardly in good taste is it? It just makes the unions look bad to have this sort of thing on sale at their conference. Can you imagine the CBI having T-shirts looking forward to the deaths of Tony Benn, or Shirley Williams, on sale at their conference?

the tee shirts are not for young people, they are for the people who experienced her.

I do think the tshirts have probably been designed and made by one stall holder hoping to make a few quid. The media will pick up on that and twist into something else regarding anyone who feels hatred towards Thatcher and her cabinet of the time. I thought the pro Thatcher supporters would be celebrating his entrepreneurial skills. In the report linked to this thread the TUC themselves have condemned them.

onceortwice I don't like those t-shirts. But my view is that you cannot hold a whole group to be responsible for the actions of individual members acting without authorisation.

Especially since you don't know they're still doing it. Brendan Barber spoke out against the t-shirt. I'd be very surprised if he didn't also say the t-shirts should be removed from TUC conference premises.

Similarly I don't hold all Conservatives responsible for the distasteful Kill Nelson Mandela chants I mentioned earlier even though the song is often sung on YC premises.

It's enough for me to know that the Conservative Party doesn't condone those views.

Really, creighton, was there an age restriction???? Did you have to justify how Thatcher had personally balled your life up?

Hmm... thought not.

So, really, the idiot who came up with this disgusting idea is really a capitalistic chap who doesn't fall too far from the person they are so scathing about.

MrJudgyPants wrote:
"What a bunch of utter cretins to eagerly await the death of another human being."
Well you certainly lived up to your name. You obviously haven't really read the posts. I am second to none in my loathing for Thatcher but I made it quite plain in my first post that I wouldn't be buying this t-shirt and so did some others.
To call us all utter cretins because of our political view is just insulting.

limited I don't condone those on the right for singing Kill Nelson Mandela though. I was brought up to believe that everyone is valuable and that anyones death diminishes us all.

Lovelygoldboots You say I have no respect - I'm not one of those who is preparing a party for when an old lady eventually dies. People can happily recount their tales of pain and woe without recourse to crassness. I said it is about having dignity and I stand by that.

This sort of thing, in my opinion, debases the TUC, their movement, their message and their supporters. It also prompts the obvious question that if Mrs Thatcher was as bad as she was made out to be how come Labour, with a bigger majority and thirteen years in power, failed to overturn her legacy in any significant way?

I hate the bitch, however I wouldn't wish anyone dead!
I have lived through her in power, thankfully as a child and not a parent.

Conference I wrote "What a bunch of utter cretins to eagerly await the death of another human being."

I wasn't calling anyone a cretin for their political view - I was calling them a cretin, and will continue to do so to my dying day, for their inhumanity to another fellow human.

For someone so keen for me to read other peoples posts, perhaps you'd have the good form to read mine before commenting in future.

Mr Judgypants, I say you have no respect because you have chosen to ignore what people have recounted and made up your version. I and many other posters who will not shed a tear when Thatcher goes, do not condone these tshirts anymore than the TUC does (AND IT DOES SAY IN THE LINKED REPORT THAT THE TUC CONDEMN THESE TSHIRTS!!!). But again you have chosen to ignore what we have said.

I was brought up to believe that everyone is valuable and that anyones death diminishes us all

Lovely to hear it mrjudgeypants as well as your concern for the image of the TUC and all union members.

I feel we will be able struggle on without you. But your very genuine thoughts are most welcome.

You couldn't possibly have read all the posts or you would see that many here do not like the t-shirts. I do not care when or how she goes.
I did read yours - that's why it seemed you were condemning anyone who didn't like her.

Superb and eloquent post by sashh some pages back.
So much damage done.
I wouldn't wear the t-shirt but I find it hard to get upset about it.
It surprises me how quickly people forget. I was born in the year she became PM and her actions had deep impact upon my childhood. I don't believe labour are faultless but certainly they did more for families like mine and the elderly than Thatcher did.

And the Hillsborough report today is shining a light on a dark part of her history.

Lovelygoldboots You can't have it both ways. I'm not saying that you are guilty of this, but you must admit that as soon as some clot on the right has a brainfart and says something stupid there is a kneejerk reaction from the left and everyone on the right gets tarred with the same brush - the 'same old Tories' arguement. Recations like that happen all the time. This is a case where some clot on the left has done something which reflects badly on the left and I'm glad the TUC have distanced themselves from him. As for not showing respect for peoples views, I haven't commented on anyones views other than to say that wishing someone dead is a crass thing to do.

Conference I have read the posts and I know that, of the 287 posts so far, there is a split between those who are planning a party when she dies and those who, like me, think that sort of behaviour is wrong. I thought it would go without saying that I'm only condemning the people I disagree with!

I am aware that Thatchers legacy is a thorny topic and that many people had it tough due to her policies - I speak as someone who grew up in a Northern mining town - but a debate about Thatcherism can be had without stooping to the level of some of the comments that have been posted on this board.

I've said I wouldn't wear the T-shirt. Some of the posts on here have been trying to explain why they might not miss her. People who talk about how the unions had to be broken are missing the point. Someone came along and said, "we are closing the mine/mill/factory, you and your DB, DSs and every other man will be laid off, your wives will lose their jobs because your towns economy will fail and you will lose your home, you tradition of hard work will be lost and your DGC will live on benefits. BTW you are the enemy within."

Can you see how you would have felt. Because if you can't, you are lacking in a very basic human attribute.

T-shirts and celebration packs a despicable and very base idea.Two British women absolutely revered in Southern Africa are Emily Hobhouse, Margaret Thatcher,for what they did for that country in troubled times.Wondered how long before 'Bambi' Mandela would be brought up, by people who haven't a clue what he was really about and the real state South Africa is now in.
Couldn't dance on Lucifer himself's grave in a t-shirt...too afeared of old Karma.

a debate about Thatcherism can be had without stooping to the level of some of the comments..

the effect of her policies drove people to death. i know people who killed themselves as a direct result of her policies.

11 000 men lost their jobs almost overnight in the town where i live.

11 000.

the only support they got was a map to the dole office.

we ate factory rejected food that wasn't fit to be sold in the shops, we had to queue up next to a lorry parked up in a town centre car park to buy from it.

we had EEC handouts of butter and tinned meat

the ones who had the large redundancy pay outs bought their council houses cheaply, but i lost count how many lost them when they tried to remortgage to finance repairs..interest rates soared but wages were low

as well as jobs, we had our dignity taken

i think i'm pretty well entitled to direct my anger at the person who could have changed that impact

I'm very much a leftie. And I think Thatcher's policies and political style were disastrous. But I still feel eagerly awaiting her death (or that of anyone really) is deeply unpleasant. It's also damaging to the state of political discourse in this country, which is already pretty low, let's face it. We all need to remember what was so wrong about her years in power, not just reduce it all to juvenile sloganeering.

That was one of the worst things about the harsh divisions of the 80s, especially at Uni. The right-on versus the hard right: nasty, hectoring, bullying, dishonest, contemptuous. Mostly men holding forth in increasingly shrill, misogynistic and horrible ways. I haven't missed any of that and I don't want it back.

I disagree, UnChartered.

I lived in an area of high unemployment. Way over 30%.

A good lifestyle choice was to get PG, have a child, get a flat. Was one of the most appealing options for girls my age. WHen I said I wanted to go to Uni my CAREERS teacher LAUGHED. TOld me a YTS would be more in keeping for my outlook on life (I did do a degree, and two post grad courses)

It's easy to blame Thatcher. But what has changed? Still much the same in the town I grew up in. And we had Peter Mandleson as MP for a good while. Didn't change a damn thing. Don't think the Torys can be blamed for everything.

how can you disagree with me?

that was my experience - you can't argue against that

No one can take your dignity.

We had nothing. As I said, my teacher told me I was stupid to consider A Levels, never mind Uni. I did both. I never once left it stop me.

Thatcher played a part, I agree, but there were lots of other people trying to keep the status quo. Thatcher wasn't so powerful that she changed the whole dynamic of an area. ANd, if she was, why didn't it reverse when labour came to power? Not a single thing has changed in my home town. Not a thing. You can blame her for some things, but you can't blame her for not turning things around since she left power. Labour have had loads of time to turn things around and it hasn't happened.

Am having a "ding dong the witch is dead" party when she goes, that song is on the playlist...

They're utterly repugnant as says alot about anyone who'd buy one.

I'm with you too GreenD. She broke the unions and stopped them holding the country to ransom.

The T shirts are in very bad taste and would be whatever name you put in there.

I agree, it says more about those who support the TUC than those who support / Supported Thatcher.