To think that these T-shirts are disgusting?

[GreenD]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19560284

Whatever you may think of her, this is hardly in good taste is it? It just makes the unions look bad to have this sort of thing on sale at their conference. Can you imagine the CBI having T-shirts looking forward to the deaths of Tony Benn, or Shirley Williams, on sale at their conference?

I remember in the thick of it all when the Archbishop of Canterbury, concerned about what was happening, asked her for a meeting and she said she was, "Too busy".
I wonder if the current one will be too busy to conduct her funeral ?

I was in a northern town that whilst affected, was not as affected as those in the NE and Scotland.

sashh thank you for your simple, yet eloquent, explanation.

I was in the south but it is possible to see what's happening to other people in your own country if you want to look.

Her contempt for Scotland as a whole was shown by introducing the Poll Tax here a year before England, effectively using the countyry as her guinea pig - and sitting back and watching the riots

Tanith Mr Costello wrote a much more directly anti-Thatcher song called

The chorus goes:

Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, I'm trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
Long enough to savor
That's when they finally put you in the ground
I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

The deployment of police officers from non-mining communities was a deliberate tactic to ensure that officers, many of whom were young men with no dependants, could not easily feel sympathy with the men on the picket lines and their families at home.

The massive drive in police recruitment from 1979 that happened in preparation for the conflict with the NUM in 1984 saw many of those young men plucked from dead-end jobs to a career with excellent pay and prospects.

Most didn't stop to think how lucky they were and how things would have been different if they had been born to a working class family in Yorkshire rather than Essex.

It's nothing new. It happened during the Libyan uprising when army units from one side of that vast country were shipped in to quell protesters from the other side. It's always happened all over the world when governments want to win a battle against the people they are supposed to be governing fairly.

And yes, I did mean 'shipped in.'

I don't particularly blame the police for some of the attitudes they displayed, often in the face of violence. But I do ask people to have a bit of imagination.

The government at the time used the police as a quasi-paramilitary organisation and lots of people didn't think then about how damaging that was to the image of the police and still don't think about it.

I think Thatcher's strange relationship with the truth, the Police and the Sun will also be writ large during this final phase of the Hillsborough disaster story, particularly if there are new inquests.

yy linerunner.

I'll be in front of a telly from 12.30pm when the report is released.

Doesn't bode well for work this afternoon.

When I read threads like this, I really don't know why the South East of England is part of the UK at all

WTF?!

Yeah because a few idiots who know fuckall about Thatcher and what she did are representative of the south east as a whole.

Do you really think everyone living in the south east at that time were champagne charlies/yuppies? or even in employment?

I grew up in London in the 70s/80s in a single parent home, some of it on benefits/free school meals etc.

Do you think only northerners were affected by her shit?

This will be played loudly the day she dies.

MyAmberLeaf, I didn't mean that comment as reflecting attitudes of the South East, but more that the eighties created a country in which the treatment of London and the South East created a cultural and economic gulf between those areas as a whole and the rest of the country.

Clearly many people in the South East did have a terrible time, but I was thinking more about the validity of governing a country in such a way that vastly benefits some areas at the expense of the rest.

Ok I get what you meant now thanks MySpanielHell.

Lots in the southeast were sacrificed at the expense of those that benefitted too.

The south east was certainly not a bubble, I was only about 7 years old during the miners strike but was very aware of it as Mum was actively involved with the Labour party at the time and it was explained to us kids as she helped with collections for striking miners and their families.

*correction Im not that young! I was about 10 at the time not 7!

What a bunch of utter cretins to eagerly await the death of another human being. This board has gone beyond parody with talk of dancing, pissing and defecating on a grave. What if the Tories had done something like this about an equally divisive member on the left - Arthur Scargill springs immediately to mind - can you imagine (rightly) the indignation from those on the left?

Whatever you consider Mrs Thatcher to be responsible for, I assure you that two wrongs won't make a right and that dignity, under all circumstances, is a great virtue.

(he says after name calling)

mrjudgeypants some people on the Right eagerly anticipate the deaths of people they despise too.

Kill Nelson Mandela is still a popular ditty at some Young Conservative gatherings.

Rejoicing in the death of political figures may not be edifying but please don't run away with the idea that it's not an equal opportunity pursuit.

MrJudgyPants, there are many many people here who have talked about real pain and suffering that they have suffered under the Thatcher government. Not one person has talked about pissing or shitting on her grave. You are using peoples justifiable anger to turn this into some kind of personal rant against people who dare to speak about their own experiences. It is you who has no respect and you should read more carefully the posters who have taken the time to recount their own personal pain and show some empathy, a personal virtue that Mrs Thatcher clearly did not possess.

Arthur Scargill didn't nick my milk.

I find this very difficult.

I grew up in a pretty run down place in NE England. (Which, by the way, has not done any better after 10 years of labour). I remember my milk stopping at school. my parents were pretty piss poor, though it didn't seem that bad, cos everyone else I knew was piss poor too.

BUT... I still have a real problem with this t-shirt.

It trivialises life and death. I appreciate that she is elderly and in fraily health but really? Would those exact same trade unionists be as happy if someone wished them / a member of their family dead?

We live in a society which does not condone the death sentence. I agree with that. I would never wish anyone dead. The t-shirt does not show the TUC off in a good light and (IMHO) undermines a lot of the good work they do.

We're not condoning the death sentence. Some of us are just saying we won't be all that sad when nature takes it's course.

Thanks for clarifying that lovelygoldboots.

I didn't read the whole thread and foolishly trusted mrjudgypants to be telling the truth.

I wasn't all that sad when my grandmother passed away - she was ill and it was for the best. I didn't put it on a bloody t-shirt.

ANd it also sends a message to today's youth (that probably don't even remember thatcher) that it's OK to wish someone dead. Worrying.

That's your gran, though. I don't think your gran was probably responsible for wrecking entire communities/mass unemployment amongst other things.

Wishing people dead (and I'm sure there's a difference between wishing someone dead and just being a bit happy when they are actually dead) has happened for years. It's not sending a message to today's youth.

I will also just say, I do have a problem with the tshirts, but a robust debate about Thatchers legacy is needed.

It is a t-shirt sold at one stall at the TUC conference. For all we know they've been told to stop selling it.

The poor taste of one stallholder does not diminish the valuable work of the trades union movement or represent the views of trade union members and it is extraordinary to say so.

It's also extraordinarily patronising to think the youth of any era can't make up their own minds and need a t-shirt to do it for them.

Limited - I am afraid we have to disagree.

Selling that sort of t-shirt DOES undermine the TUC as a whole. Sorry, it does.