Family member trying to 'get off' drink driving charge.

[jeezlouize]

Namechanged.

My BIL was arrested and charged with drink driving last week. He was 3 times over the limit. There has been much whispering amongst the family since, hearing dribs and drabs about what happened etc but last night everyone got together for a meal at PIL's house. The atmosphere was tense to say the least.
Halfway through the night my FIL (BIL's dad) brought up the subject of the drink driving charge and said he'd like to speak to us all about it as he had something to ask us all.
It turns out BIL has been seeing a lawyer who claims he can 'get him off' with the charge. FIL was asking if we could all chip in financially to pay for this lawyer. It would be about £500 per couple (there are 5 couples in the family).
The reason being, BIL will automatically lose his job if he loses his license. My SIL doesn't work and they have 4dc.
I am very, very angry with BIL, and frankly disgusted at this suggestion about this lawyer. It has caused some tension between me and DH (BIL's brother). This is not about the money, it's about the principle. AIBU in thinking BIL should be punished for what he's done? I'm really agonising over this as I don't want SIL and dcs to suffer.

I'm pleased that your dh has come round to view this the same as you. Good luck with the other three couples. If you can persuade one couple it will make it easier to convince the other two couples. So before the meeting think about whom it will be easiest to convince and work on them first at the meeting.

The idea of contributing money to aid your SIL in learning to drive and passing her tests sounds far more sensible and feasile.

Sorry about your GF, Enjoy. I've known several people killed by drunk drivers. The last was Candice Kim, a beautiful, happy, 21-year-old business student about to enter her last year of university and, having done very well in her law school entrance exams, aiming to go straight into law school after finishing her undergrad degree. Candice was brilliant, passionately committed to mentoring and assisting Asian-American women in higher education (she was the child of Korean parents) and loads of fun to be with. Her laugh was infectious and she had an amazing sense of humour.

I had the privilege of being a work colleague of hers for two summers. And the misfortune of attending her funeral and helping to clear her flat with mates as her family were so devestated by her death they couldn't do it. She died in 1992 and this scholarship was set up in her memory.

She was killed by a repeat offender drunk driver alongside her 18-year-old cousin, Denise.

Well done OP

It is not possible to get off if 3 times over. It's a mandatory 12 month ban and he'll probably get at least 2 years at that level, plus a lot of community service. The twat should have thought about his wife and DCs before endangering other people's lives with his selfish behaviour.

And my own brother was caught in similar circs recently, and lost his licence for 2 years even though (1) he had a letter from his employer saying he would definitely lose his job and (2) he could show that there is no public transport to or from the village where he lives. He is now on benefits till he gets his licence back.

Glad dh has come round to your point of view. Ruddy cheek of his families though, debating who gets his car - it'll need to be sold to support his poor children, as their father has thrown his job away.

Op very glad you DH has come round more to your way of thinking, i hope ou have some success with the other couples, lots of support here for your arguments.

Will you promise to come back and update us after he's been in court?

Sentencing guidelines here:
sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/MCSG_(web)_-_Complete_8.pdf

Page 124

Excess alcohol (drive/attempt to drive)
Maximum: Level 5 fine and/or 6 months

For 3* the limit, the sentencing range is Low level community order to high level community order

So he would not be imprisoned.

Aggravating factors are:

driving near school
accident
driving a bus/van/truck
carrying passengers
weather conditions
evidence of bad driving
high level of traffic/pedestrians

And lower culpability:

emergency
spiked drinks
very short distance driven

Disqualification period is 23-28 months.

12 months ban is a minimum

I was going to post that my question would be: How would you feel if you gave in? Would you resent your husband, question his morale etc.

I see that he's seen sense and make the 100% right choice, I am so very happy for you and I hope BIL gets beaten of the head with the book and your family. You sound like you make your DH a better person :) I hope he also sees the moral side too, not just the fiscal one.

Interested to see if he does get this lawyer though..

I lost people I loved to drink driving, but it's too painful to talk about. :( My father used to terrify me as a child by driving extremely drunk (and erratically) while I was in the car. :( It's traumatised me so much I can't get my license. I'm terrified of driving and other other drivers. There are only a very select number of people I will get in a car with.

My husband is teetotal, he just never cared for alcohol. He worked so hard to get his license, he had to have a reader for his theory and extra time for his practical due to his dyslexia, but went on to get a license to drive a minibus and has had a clean license for many years. Now, he is working to be a coach/bus driver.

He thinks the drink drive limit should be zero. No quibbles then. Everyone in his work knows the score. No drinking within 48 hours of your duty, and he works for a big coach tour operator.

I agree.

There are just too many other options in this country. It's easy, in cities, to use public transport or after hours to use mini-cabs, private hire cabs.

No excuses for it, IMO! I used to go out and binge drink and arrange to stay with friends or go to places in walking/cab distance of my home, always thinking of Candice. Easy enough to even ring services say, 'I'm too drunk to drive,' and get taken away.

BIL has to take the consequences. He is responsible and any fall-out for his family is his fault. If he has to experience being out of work then so be it - he should have thought of that before he put other motorists and pedestrians in danger. I am very, very sorry for his wife and children and it would be a good idea to help his wife financially with driving lessons.

Would FIL be happy if any of his family had been killed or injured by a drunk driver who then 'got off'?

My OH was run over by a DD and left for dead on the side of the road, he survived just but his neck was broken in 3 places, his collar bone was shattered, his knee was also damaged. He spent 6 months in hospital receiving treatment for his injuries and will NEVER be fully fit again, for 20 long years since the accident he has lived in constant pain and has attempted suicide as a way out. He lost approx 23% of his brain as a result of the head injuries, has short term memory loss, struggles with work due to his issues, has to take time off due to pain and has lost contracts because of this.

On an emotional level, he reacts badly when he is upset by something (due to the head injuries), is not the confident person he was due to his memory issues he gets frustrated when he can't remember or doesn't understand something. This affects his life in EVERY way, there's not an aspect of our life that isn't affected by his accident.

This is the result of a man who thought that having a few beers and driving his car was an acceptable thing to do, I live with that man's decision every day of my life.

Please think about this before you make any desicions to support such a man.

God, how awful berra

Maybe your post can change our mind-set to think that actually the really important and good thing here is that BIL got stopped by the police before he killed anyone, that night or in the future.

Maybe the police actually did him a favour there, and even his family - sparing them, and of course another family, much worse heart-ache.

All the best to you and your DH berra x

So sorry berra

Op Im glad your DH is agreeing with you. Please come back on this thread in a few weeks and let us know the outcome.

" My husband is teetotal "

" He thinks the drink drive limit should be zero. "

No surprise there.

I think that's an excellent idea Pendeen - I always find it much simpler not to drink if I'm going to be driving. I think it would create a much more straight-forward non-drinking & driving culture too. "No thanks, I'm driving" needs to be understood by everyone.
We need to support everyone in achieving this. ATM there are still so many social pressures to drink eg. at every type of party and evening out.
I hope the government will consider bringing in a zero alcohol limit ASAP.
Some discretion can always be used with fines and sentencing depending on the degree the alcohol was likely to be affecting your judgement and reaction time.
ie. a very small amount of alcohol could equal one or two points on your licence, and then rapidly upwards according to alcohol levels measured.

If it -was- zero, we would not have this problem of people slipping over with three one pint more.

People over-estimate their size when it's convenient and they don't look at the proof content of what they're drinking. Hey presto! They're over the limit and they're at the wheel, thinking they're still legally safe.

It could be like the speed limit, where it's illegal to drive over 30 in built up areas, but there is usually a small area for discretion - although I did recently have to go on a course for driving at 34 past a field on the outskirts of town - no-one about, no pavement so no pedestrians on that side etc. Obviously nowhere is completely safe but it was more like a 40 looking stretch of road.

Zero alcohol for drivers with some discretion used in enforcement of this is the way to go IMHO

I think there's a problem with having a zero limit though as it would catch out those who may have had e.g a pudding with alcohol in it.

Frankly i personally think it would be very nanny state too. There is a world of difference in being 3x over the limit and being able to have a glass of champagne at a wedding, for example, then driving home safely.

I haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating what someone else has already said.

I am a lawyer. I have never, ever had a client found not guilty of drink driving. There are very few defences and those defences are hard to run.

If the lawyer means he can avoid a ban then he is talking about a special reasons hearing. Also very hard to win - I have won one in ten years.

In any event, £2,500 up front for a drink drive case? Some solicitor somewhere is laughing all the way to the bank. My (admittedly small) firm charges £450 and only requires some of that before the first hearing.

But the way the zero limit was implimented could surely mean that the pudding eater and champagne sipper need have nothing much to worry about. For a start the police generally only stop those they have a reason to be concerned about, though I know there are spot checks too sometimes. But as I said, my idea is that those with very small amounts of alcohol (from eating tipsy puddings and such like) would get a very small warning style deterrant, such as one point on their licence. I guess the police could even have the discretion to let them go with a friendly warning if that's what they felt was merited.

sorry but that's disgusting. he did the crime so either get a loan and sort himself out or take the consequences.
Its very hard to get off drunk driving charges though. My bil was in a stationary car which he had no intention of moving with the engine off in a pub car park. he was 2 times over the drink drive limit and got himself banned for 18 months. so your bil must have a really really good excuse for getting away with it.

Money to support his children while he finds another job might be a reasonable thing to ask. Nothing else.

Glad your DH has come round OP. my FIL was killed by a drink driver. I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for anyone who iOS stupid enough to put themself in that position. If any family member or friend of mine was caught driving under the influence I'd hope they got the book thrown at them. He needs to man up and face his responsibilities.

any update OP? I hope you haven't paid out. this unacceptable use of family money and you know it, if he can pay it back, then he can get a personal loan for a sum as small as £2k, you know that if he's asking family, that's because the 'loan' will turn into a 'gift' when if he doesn't get off. (Because face it, if he's just gone to prision, lost job and his DW is struggling to keep the house, and put food on the table, what sort of shit would your DH have to be to then ask his SIL for his £500 back?)

Obviously, it's morally unaccepable to try to get off drink driving, but if your DH is more flexible about that, how about pointing out the above? Your BIL could raise a sum that small if he had too as a loan, he doesn't need to ask family for it, getting you all mixed up in it isn't on even if you did think it was OK to hire a solicitor to get off a drink driving charge. This is his problem, this is his solution to his problem, I refuse to accept he is not perfectly capable of finding that money without asking you.