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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Family member trying to 'get off' drink driving charge.

305 replies

jeezlouize · 09/09/2012 12:03

Namechanged.

My BIL was arrested and charged with drink driving last week. He was 3 times over the limit. There has been much whispering amongst the family since, hearing dribs and drabs about what happened etc but last night everyone got together for a meal at PIL's house. The atmosphere was tense to say the least.
Halfway through the night my FIL (BIL's dad) brought up the subject of the drink driving charge and said he'd like to speak to us all about it as he had something to ask us all.
It turns out BIL has been seeing a lawyer who claims he can 'get him off' with the charge. FIL was asking if we could all chip in financially to pay for this lawyer. It would be about £500 per couple (there are 5 couples in the family).
The reason being, BIL will automatically lose his job if he loses his license. My SIL doesn't work and they have 4dc.
I am very, very angry with BIL, and frankly disgusted at this suggestion about this lawyer. It has caused some tension between me and DH (BIL's brother). This is not about the money, it's about the principle. AIBU in thinking BIL should be punished for what he's done? I'm really agonising over this as I don't want SIL and dcs to suffer.

OP posts:
ModreB · 09/09/2012 20:16

So, if he killed someone would you all be expected to chip in for a lawyer?

toomuchmonthatendofthemoney · 09/09/2012 21:08

Op, I posted on about page 3 and have returned to this thread and read the other replies with interest.
How has it gone today with SIL and your DH? Have you had a chance to explain your reasoning again, maybe more calmly than last night. Sorry to say I agree it does sound like Dh is going to give the money whatever, so I think you need to discuss issues like your dc never being driven by bil etc.

I hope BIL learns his lesson from this, but I for one would very happily shop him to the police if he ever leaves your company pissed, and gets in his car. I sincerely hope he never DDrives again, but the picture painted via your posts doesn't give me much hope, tbh.

Numberlock · 09/09/2012 21:58

Have there been any similar family councils over the years, OP? It sounds a bit like you've married into the local mafia...

Xiaoxiong · 10/09/2012 05:43

I think gnome has hit upon the only possible compromise available if your husband insists on misguidedly paying this money. You agree to lend the £500 on condition that a) he pleads guilty and b) you are not tapped for anything more (which pleading guilty will help with). Oh and c) if he does manage in some way to keep his licence, your dc are never to get in a car he's driving.

Really feel for you OP. could you and SIL sit down with your Hs together? United front, strength in numbers, that sort of thing? Then neither of you can get scapegoated by the rest of the family.

JumpingThroughMoreHoops · 10/09/2012 05:54

Ashley Fitton, was cleared of drunk-driving based on the defence of coercion from the Criminal Justice Act 1925, claiming she was terrified she would be hurt by her husband if she did not drive him.[11]

^^ there's an acquittal for drink driving. Totally exonerated. Get a good enough solicitor, and charges will be dropped.

sashh · 10/09/2012 06:49

You shouldn't pay. And it is not about the money.

This is an adult who knew what he was doiing.

I have a friend whose, then, 17 year old brother got caught speeding. He hadn't even sent his pass certificate off to get his full licence.

The family rallied round and got him a lawyer and went to court with him. He was given 4 points so kept his licence (just).

But because a new driver who gets 5 points is banned, his sister has 'taken' points for him when he went through a red light and was caught on camera.

She stopped telling me about the points, I think her mum has taken some as well.

Brother is now married with a baby and, well, still an irresponsible teenager when it comes to driving.

If you want to help your BIL the best thing you could do with £500 is pay for a drink driver education course.

The lawyer can only 'get him off' if there has been a breach of procedure, and you don't know that there has.

Get the family together again, say you have looked into things and that he is going to lose his licence. Say you will support his family but that is all.

BonnyDay · 10/09/2012 07:24

Yes. There are special reasons for dd as I mentioned before. In fear of life or genuine emergency being egs.

Lividdil · 10/09/2012 08:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IDontDoIroning · 10/09/2012 09:08

Dbil is entitled to legal representation whether he is guilty or not.

I don't know too much about legal aid but as OP says he has a job I don't suppose he will be entitled so he will have to pay for a solicitor (barrister? ) when he goes to court anyway.

Tbh £2500 doesnt sound like much of a legal bill actually given what Solicitors and Barristers charge. So I would wonder about this .

Now if had been OP and Dbil had said he would struggle to pay his legal representatives without mentioning the trying to get off bit. I may have been sympathetic to lending him the money.

However this is situation is wrong.

BonnyDay · 10/09/2012 09:13

afaik you dont get legal aid for motoring offences unless you face custody

oldraver · 10/09/2012 10:06

So you pay to get him off so he lives to drink drive another day. You can bet your bottom dollar that as he hasn't had to face the consequences of his actions there is no deterrent from him doing it again.

Tell your SIL who seems so keen on getting him of he could be drink driving with her DC's in the car, does she really want to take that risk

iscream · 10/09/2012 10:12

Maybe if he joined AA I would agree.

TheBigJessie · 10/09/2012 10:23

I believe wholeheartedly that people need legal representation in courts. Out of simple fairness. Fair sentences for individuals are less likely if trials consist of self-representing defendants stammering excuses and misunderstood precedents versus professional prosecuters.

But there's a difference between funding a solicitor for a fair trial, and funding a solicitor who tries to get the trial dismissed on a technicality. Grin

TheBigJessie · 10/09/2012 10:38

And as I said before, no evidence there's any technicality, is there? We've covered some of the famous ones: is your BIL in an abusive relationship? Was he found by the police while already parked or similar? Unlikely, I think. Every police officer in the land must know the importance of stopping your suspect at the wheel after having witnessed the car moving!

hattifattner · 10/09/2012 10:39

my dh was banned for speed offences when my kids were small. Having to be the sole driver for 6 months was horrible, especially as he was working away and I would have to take the kids up to the station at night to fetch him, plus do all the driving - imagine you have been on the go all day driving here and there and then he announces that he needs a certain screw/nail/rawl plug and would you run him down to the DIY store....usually just as you settle down on the sofa with a cuppa for the first time in a long day.

Then the insurance for the car came in and it was 3x higher than before.

SO the human cost was over £1k for a lawyer that said he could get him off; £700 fine; 3x insurance cost, train fares to work and a whole heap of human misery for me and the kids, plus humiliation for him.

So I would agree that £500 will not be the end of it. Plus the human cost to his wife and family will be considerable.

That said, I think this is a fait accompli, your DH will hand over the money. You need to reach a compromise that this will be the only handout, regardless of the outcome, and you expect full repayment within two years (thats a fiver a week).

negotiate now on what happens in the future, because this will not end here.

jellybrain · 10/09/2012 11:14

YAnbu. Perhaps you could all lend him £500 to tide him over while he's looking for work if and when he is banned from driving,.

quoteunquote · 10/09/2012 11:53

Later this week a lovely woman aged 19, will come to my house, as I have offered to help her organise her, for her first term at university, go through her lists, and order bits and pieces,

I know her parents would love to be doing this with her, they also missed doing this with her brother, they have missed everything in the last 16 years,

about sixteen years ago five of my friends were travelling to a wedding of another friend of ours, when on the motorway just before Birmingham a selfish bastard, drunk slammed into their car spinning it into a lorry,

all five died from their injuries,some immediately,some took a while,so smashed up their parents couldn't recognise them,none woke up ,other cars were involved, many of the occupants suffered life changing damage, the lorry driver never drove again,many families were permanently effected,

of my five friends , two were a couple also newly married, but with small two children,who had been left with their grandparents for the day, one of the other lads had only the day before learnt he too was to become a father, totally delighted, he was just about to start his PHD, his sister who was sat next to him 22 weeks pregnant, died the day after the crash, the other woman a very dear friend of mine, the only child of a lovely couple took a week to die, she was due to start at uni, she was god mum to the girl who is coming to mine,

anyone suggesting giving the subject of this thread any help in avoiding very basic consequences of his actions, is also responsible for future outcomes of his drink driving,

This vile selfish pathetic excuse of a human should man up, take his ban on the chin and thank every star in the sky he didn't have to face something much worse,

How grim that he made a choice to drink and drive, but to then try to get out of what is really a very minor punishment, well that is so shameful I'm surprised anyone wants anything to do with him ever again.

Paying money to get out of a drink driving charge is so disgusting,asking other to contribute is shocking, even considering doing so vile.

I hope that those who consider this a good idea never get to understand what the consequences are.

OP, your brother in law should quit driving for life, he doesn't have the capability to understand the responsibility, I pity you being related to such morons,

you mention that some of you have children, what kind of example are you all setting to them? do something despicable and pay your way out, great life lesson for them.

the man that killed my friends still lives his life, shame he ruined so many other lives.

I will show my friend's daughter this thread, she takes an active interest in drink drivers, and public attitudes.

I have in my car a photo attached to the sun visor, it shows the group of us happy and care free,taken a couple of weeks before most of the people in the photo were killed, every time I get in my car I look at that photo, if for any reason I think my driving won't be perfect that day, I get out the car, it's not worth risking anyone lives, just because I want to go somewhere.

OP tell your brother in law to act like a decent human, and hold his hands up and take what he deserves.

Numberlock · 10/09/2012 12:11

What a touching story, quote, I do hope the BIL gets to read this.

And, seeing as you are going to show her this thread, very best wishes to your friend going off to uni. I am sure her parents would be very proud.

TheBigJessie · 10/09/2012 13:25

Oh, there's a sentence missing from my last post. "Like the cost!" should immediately precede the emoticon.

stillorsparkling · 10/09/2012 13:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 10/09/2012 13:42

No way would I pay this money and if my DH was tempted to (not that he would) I would lose all respect for him!

There is no excuse for DD and I cant believe your BIL's family would try and bail him out....what message does that give him....that it is ok and he can get away with it. Maybe he will do it again and next time kill someone - would your PIL's bail him out then too?

How would you DH feel if one of kids had been injured by a drunk driver because if he gives this money he is basically saying that it's ok!

What a dreadful family :(

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 10/09/2012 13:44

Quote - that is so :( - your poor friends.

Stories like that make my blood boil.

Lougle · 10/09/2012 14:15

Guidelines here

How '3x the limit' was he?

Because if he was 3.5 times the limit, he's looking at 12 weeks in prison.

Has anyone in your family grasped just how serious this offense is? I don't mean the moral stuff. I don't mean the tragedy that can ensue. Other people have covered that. I mean that what the family are paying their '£500' each for is to try and get him out of a 2½ year driving ban and 12 weeks in prison.

Shame on them if they do.

bubby64 · 10/09/2012 14:40

A drunk driver hit my friend and her little boy, boy died at the scene, my friend is now seriously brain injured and will require full time care for the rest of her life. This was the 2nd time he had been charged with drink driving, the first time he had hired and expensive lawer who got him off with a technicality, the 2nd time, after commiting manslaughter, the oily (and to my mind corrupt) lawyer failed. The man did 2 yrs and banned for 4, to run concurrently, he is now back driving and expensive BMW, she is in a wheelchair for the rest of her, likely shortened, life.
I agree with most others on here- if you pay to get him off, he will do it again, and next time, the victim could be someone like my dear friend. Do NOT do it!

toomuchmonthatendofthemoney · 10/09/2012 15:03

OP, do you think your DH would read this thread, esp the posts by those who have lost loved ones and dear friends, and hopefully change his stance?

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