...to be beside myself with pride over this?

[trumpeter]

Had to share, I'm prob being very pfb but I have been bowled over by dd today.
After a bout of bullying at school then a period of 3 - 6 months with no 'real' friends, dd (15) has been talking about a girl she's met at school who she's became close with. She's been talking about her CONSTANTLY for about 3 or 4 weeks, she's 'great fun, a good laugh, really friendly, not bitchy like all the other girls etc'. I feel like I know this girl inside out already, and we didn't meet until last night when dd asked if she could come round for pizza, a film and stay the night. I was really looking forward to meeting her. So, to cut to the chase, this girl, who is indeed just lovely showed up about 6pm last night, came in, said hello etc then they disappeared off to the room. I left them to it. This morning they came down in their jammies and to my surprise (and don't ask me why I was surprised) I noticed that my dd's new pal is an amputee, she has no right arm below the elbow. I immediately asked her what had happened and she told me she had been in an accident as a baby. Anyway, they ate, lounged about and then her mum picked her up. I asked dd why she hadn't mentioned it before and she simpy said, 'why would I?' while looking at me with a perplexed look. I honestly don't think I've loved her more. Just thought I would share, AIBU to be bursting with pride about my dd's nonchalance about something I'd imagine lots of teen would be awkward about?

i dont think the op thinks its extraordinary, i think she thinks it should be the norm and sadly isnt, but she is pleased that her dd doesnt see it as an issue?

but i do think it has been explained badly.

and i dont think the op means that the child and her family should feel grateful tho i can see how it possibly comes across that way.

and yes there has been flaming.

I would probably feel happy if it was my dd. I live in the real world though and work with teenagers. Some of the derogatory terminology used by them to describe people with disabilities would make your ears bleed. So yeah, if my dd turned out to be the antithesis of that I'd be over the fucking moon.

I see your point MrsDeVere.

I am trying to think honestly if I would have been upset if it had been about my child.
And I really don't think I would.

I get a LOT of comments about DS because he is a bit 'different' albeit a personality trait, not a disability.
Even his friends pass comments. It is as if he is wearing blue when everyone else is wearing red.
People say, 'DS is wearing blue when everyone else is wearing red isn't he?'. I generally shrug, smile and let the comment pass. If it is an adult, I tell them he is a remarkable young man and that I am proud of him.

Noticing someone is different to ourselves is not IMO a prejudice. Curiosity is natural. I am going through something with a friend at the moment that makes them very unique, and I am the first to admit the issues are raising questions, that fortunately, my friend recognises as my need to understand, not a judgement or basis for prejudice, but so I can support them as and when they need it.

No I don't think the op thinks that. It something Lougle said.
I am treading very carefully here.
I don't want to piss anyone off and I don't want a fight.
I also accept that other parents feel a different way.
But I wanted to post.

see i wouldnt be over the moon about it, my children are accepting and dont treat people differntly and i am pleased by that(as i am pleased by them when they behave well in general) but also it is what i expect and i would be bloody disappointed and rather cross if they did not do this. i am teaching them better than that.

and it is a thread for treading carefully, i dont think anyone wants to cause offence, its interesting to get different view points :)

DS is 20 and was born with a cleft lip and palate. Hare lip is a very old-fashioned term that is occasionally used by people who don't know any better. Neither DS nor any of us get upset, just refer back to his cleft, as it's really not worth getting wound up about. HOWEVER on a thread where everyone is falling over themselves to be PC, get it right!!!

Another little gripe - DS would never consider himself to be disabled in any way. To him, it's a pain, as we've always said, I got fat legs, he got a cleft! It's life, get on with it. It hasn't stopped him being elected Head of House at school, having loads of friends, good exam results and a successful career ahead. It possible has made him rather more sensitive towards others feelings, and generally he is a nice person.

I'm really irritated today because he has heard that someone has been taking the p* out of his face, and is angry, because he was only told this morning, after spending last night in this jerk's company. DS has always been open about his cleft, and happy to explain it to people who ask. As I've said this morning, he can look in the mirror and be proud, whereas others must look and see nothing of value - even if there's a 'perfect' face in front of them.

I know I'm off on a tangent - some of what has been written has really wound me up at the wrong time! DS doesn't mind people noticing and talking, he just minds people being nasty - although is fortunately old enough to know that this is normally as a result of their own shortcomings.

I'll go away again now!

For my part MreDeVere I suppose I am questioning my own point of view and accepting yours as the chance to ask myself if actually, my own view is rational.
I wouldn't dream of thinking you wanted a fight. I have a lot of respect for you.

I have to say, I honestly did not know until reading this thread that hare lip and cleft palate was no longer used. That is the term that was used years ago and I had no reason to know any different. It was even in medical literature from what I can remember.

It truthfully never entered my head to question the reason or origins of the term.

Now that I know that people find it offensive of course I wouldn't use it. Everlast has said the same - she apologised and said she wouldn't use it again. There's really not much she can do other than that.

(Incidentally, I'm 50 years old - and still learning every day!)

for those who don't get MrsD's point or the point of those of us who think this is wrong think about it like this:

Imagine your child, your happy, healthy child is, for some reason, the victim of bullying at school. Imagine then that they make a good friend, a best friend, and you are delighted that they are accepted by someone. so far, so good. And then one day you overhear that friend's mother and a group of other mothers talking in the playground: "Oh, I'm so proud of x, she doesn't even notice y's differences, I mean everyone notices them, and yet they don't matter to her at all. It's so wonderful, I think she deserves a treat for not noticing - I am bursting with pride." This is your daughter. your child they are talking about, and how wonderful it is that while everyone else notices how different she is, their child is fantastic for not noticing. How would you feel about that? Honestly?

Sometimes disability needs to be noticeable. If I go into a shop on my own then I need to get help from a shop assistant for instance. And sometimes the noticeability is appreciated. For instance on Thursday night I went to a function where I know many of the people only from a group on Facebook. We were all recogniseable from our pictures on there, except that because I can't see, I didn't recognise any of them. So I was deeply appreciative of the ones that introduced themselves to me because they recognised my picture and realised I didn't know who they were.

Acceptance can come even if the disability is noticeable and talked about, or not, it doesn't matter. Where I draw the line is when acceptance is somehow considered worthy of praise - it isn't. We accept people for who they are. Sometimes we don't accept them for who we are. But when we do there is nothing noteworthy about it and nor should there ever be, even if societal norm is for that not to be the case.

I'm 34 and hare lip was a common term when I was growing up. It is not one I would now use. And FWIW I agree with MrsDeVere. Pride seems a puzzling emotion for what is essentially a child treating another child as a person rather than a disability. Perhaps it depends on your own experiences

I am thinking a lot about it as I potter wannabe..

In some ways what you have described is how my son has been treated. Bullied, ostracised made miserable by his peers.

4 years later, he is still essentially the same boy with the same 'quirks', if anything. more so as he gets older, and he now has a group of friends that both notice them and accept him for who he is.
And actually I have a lot of respect for them and a lot of time for them. A sort of pride in them if you will.

And of course he should have the moral fibre to stick up for the people, but in certain instances, the girls being sexually humiliated. But I have to admit, I swelled with pride that he had the courage to stand up and do so.
But he was just doing what every one should do.
But often don't.

I am not opposing your point, but again, questioning my own.

There is a big fuzzy area when it comes to recognising differences.
I think Chickens is right that our own experiences might colour our points of view.

I agree with you, Wannabe. If I heard a group of people in the playground I wouldbe upset. But the OP never said she would treat her daughter, nor did she praise her. She simply had an internal reaction, which was pride that her daughter had developed a maturity about disability.

Companies who recruit lots of people with disabilities, who are black, who are women, who have any protected characteristic, are publicly praised and held up as examples of best practice. Why is it that the OP can't be pleased?

Oh, and MrsD, Jo couldn't work out whichbit of my post upset you, but I'm sorry it did.

think that there is nothing wrong with noticing differences in fact it is prob impossible not to and a bit patronising to pretend not to and to think that makes u a better person.
however i think op is being judged harshly for essentially being proud of her child and prob v happy her child is happy in school after bullying etc.

None of your post upset me Lougle

I said I refuse to feel grateful that someone would accept my son. This was in response to someone else.

As I have already said, I am stating how i feel. I am not going to tell any parent of a I'd with SN how they should feel.

I'm 33 and I've only heard the word 'harelip' used in movies. I had no idea it was offensive, although I've never used it myself and that's simply because I happen to say cleft lip, no other reason. Because it's been used so freely on tv and in movies, it's small wonder that people might not know that it's considered to be an offensive term.

And I've come to the conclusion that on the whole, the original post sits better with those who are not accustomed to dealing with disability on a regular basis. It's clear to me that there was no right or wrong way to deal with this event, just different.

Frankly, I think getting anything out in the open is a very good thing if it inspires debate like this. Nothing changes for the better without breaking it open and inspecting the contents. The 'Stop Staring!' thread is a great example of this. Some people have now learnt what it's like to be on the other side and as a result their behaviour might change to be more acceptable for both sides. Some posters here didn't know that 'harelip' was a derogatory term, but now they do.

I've only read the first150posts because I got bored of the deliberate misunderstanding.

trumpeter - I am proud of your DD for making a friend full-stop.

I know a lot of posts were "ooh, she made a friend that's not newsworthy", but I was bullied really badly (well, they bullied me really well ), and i found it very hard to make friends after that - in my life, it would have been "nickel made friends with a girl and talked about nothing but her, then invited her round for pizza and sleepover, but she turned up and started slagging off her room, belongings, food, film choice, etc, and the next day at school, the girl was mocking her and slagging her off in front of the other bitches."

so, to me, the fact your DD made a friend who is a genuine friend makes my 15-year-old self very happy indeed.

My brother was born with a harelip and cleft palate 29 years ago. That's how the dr's referred to it at the time and that's how we have always referred to it.

To me, it seems odd to say cleft lip and cleft palate - but that's just me.

If anyone asked, I would say harelip - but that's only because as I said, to me that's what its always been and so doesn't seem offensive to me - the two seem interchangeable.

in future though, if for any reason I discussed it with anyone now I would say cleft lip - but still refer to my brother's as a harelip.

Oh thank you for your post mumof1 I'm glad it isn't just me who thought that that's what it was called.

My daughter was also born with clefts and she certainly doesn't look like a hair. Dont use it its horrible.

I won't now I know obviously.

OP, your daughter sounds really lovely. I wish my little sister had a friend like that at her school