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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to be beside myself with pride over this?

398 replies

trumpeter · 08/09/2012 17:03

Had to share, I'm prob being very pfb but I have been bowled over by dd today.
After a bout of bullying at school then a period of 3 - 6 months with no 'real' friends, dd (15) has been talking about a girl she's met at school who she's became close with. She's been talking about her CONSTANTLY for about 3 or 4 weeks, she's 'great fun, a good laugh, really friendly, not bitchy like all the other girls etc'. I feel like I know this girl inside out already, and we didn't meet until last night when dd asked if she could come round for pizza, a film and stay the night. I was really looking forward to meeting her. So, to cut to the chase, this girl, who is indeed just lovely showed up about 6pm last night, came in, said hello etc then they disappeared off to the room. I left them to it. This morning they came down in their jammies and to my surprise (and don't ask me why I was surprised) I noticed that my dd's new pal is an amputee, she has no right arm below the elbow. I immediately asked her what had happened and she told me she had been in an accident as a baby. Anyway, they ate, lounged about and then her mum picked her up. I asked dd why she hadn't mentioned it before and she simpy said, 'why would I?' while looking at me with a perplexed look. I honestly don't think I've loved her more. Just thought I would share, AIBU to be bursting with pride about my dd's nonchalance about something I'd imagine lots of teen would be awkward about?

OP posts:
larks35 · 08/09/2012 23:24

Haven't read the whole thread! OP your daughter sounds lovely and has come through some shit and made a good pal. YANBU - you should be proud of her, she sounds great.

It seems to me that she could teach you a lesson though, her friend's disability is meaningless to her, her friend has obviously learned to adapt well and your daughter does not see her friend as disabled. So why have you made such a big deal out of it yourself? Confused

Moominsarescary · 08/09/2012 23:50

Wondered how long it would take for the shouts of troll

Who is Oscar ?

trumpeter · 08/09/2012 23:59

Pistorius!

OP posts:
GroupieGirl · 09/09/2012 00:07

Oscar is lovely.
Jodie is awesome.
Trumpeter is NOT being unreasonable.
And from now on I decree that we must all be proud of our children for all the nice and good things they do.

wannaBe · 09/09/2012 00:17

Right, have read the first 200 or so posts?

People who stop and stare are partially responsible for the fact that we still don?t have equality in this country. However, so are people like the op, and here?s why:

The instant you make reference to how wonderful it is that someone hasn?t mentioned a disability you make that disabled person unequal. You wouldn?t mention the fact that you were proud of not mentioning that someone was black, or Asian, or that a woman had been given a job over a man, or that a friend was gay, and yes, these comparisons are absolutely all relevant, because these are all situations where, in the past, black/Asian/women/homosexuals have been considered unequal to their counterparts and thus those differences would have been mentioned. It is only through education and campaigning and intolerance of prejudice that we have got to a point where being black or Asian or a woman or gay is no longer seen as a point of relevant difference. Obviously to some it is, but only in the negative - racism still exists, but we don?t praise people for not being racist iyswim because we just accept that black/Asian/white is equal and any other opinion is wrong.

In many instances disability has not yet reached that point. Campaigning for equality of disabled people is ongoing and much progress has been made. The disability discrimination act only came in in 1997 for instance, when I was growing up inclusion of children into a mainstream environment was seen as novel rather than the norm, yet now it is illegal to discriminate against the disabled and children are routinely educated in mainstream schools just to name two examples. But there is still a long way to go, and that is partly down to attitudes, but also partly down to the fact that because disability is so diverse, ultimate inclusion is not as straightforward as it was in examples of racism for instance, because adaptations to make everywhere inclusive are often numerous to accommodate all disabilities.

And because much disability is physically obvious, differences are noticeable and often observed either loudly by staring/commenting, or more discretely such as in the case of the op. But it?s a fact that people still notice, and still feel it?s ok to notice difference, even if it apparently doesn?t bother them that the difference exists.

In an ideal world, people with disabilities will be seen in the same way as people who are black/Asian/who are women and difference will be something which isn?t relevant and thus not raised as a point of issue.

But while people like the op express pride that her daughter sees someone with a disability as an equal rather than someone to be stared at, this equality is still stalling.

Not noticing is of course a positive. But noticing that someone didn?t notice isn?t ? because it immediately brings back the emphasis on the fact the difference exists ? the difference which the daughter didn?t see fit to notice, in the same way she wouldn?t notice if the girl had been black or Asian. Drawing attention to not noticing turns a positive into a negative.

It was obviously relevant to the op that this girl had a disability, relevant enough to ask why.

Perhaps the op was in fact more embarrassed that she herself had noticed the difference rather than proud of the fact her daughter had not.

Fwiw I am considered to have a disability ? I have been blind since birth. And yes of course people notice ? I tend to find the Labrador is a bit of a giveaway. ;) sDo people stare? Probably. But I am blessed with the inability to see them. Grin Are there people who are negative about the visually impaired ? almost certainly, although on the whole I have encountered very little actual prejudice. However if someone praised any of my sighted friends for not making my blindness an issue that would be far more patronising and hurtful than any blatantly negative comments. Because it implies that it should be an issue, and that it not being an issue is praiseworthy in a society where to many it would be. And why should it be an issue ? it shouldn?t,.

So op ? to be bursting with pride that your daughter is not prejudiced against the disabled ? she is just a normal girl ? the fact that man others do not react this way does not make her behaviour not what should be considered the norm iyswim.

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm · 09/09/2012 00:40

We SHOULD all be proud of our kids for the nice things they do even if its considered something they 'should' be doing. When they get up without being asked to let someone else sit down on the bus, that kind of thing.

Because so many people aren't like that these days not just kids.. and when i hear moaning about the 'yoof' of today i always wonder if they ever got attention for the good things they did..

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm · 09/09/2012 00:43

Actually be very proud because i remember not long ago something going off about the girl on cbeebies who only had one arm and the bollocks some parents were spouting saying their children were frightened of her.

Disgusting behaviour from those supposed to be setting an example of acceptance across the board

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm · 09/09/2012 00:45

Here

ListeringArnacles · 09/09/2012 01:01

Now I need to ask wannaBe sth that may or may not derail the thread yet again. How do you read/post on threads? Do you use voice and word-recognition software and, if so, which one (as it would appear to be pretty good)?

5madthings · 09/09/2012 01:21

i get it op :)

and i am glad that someone commented on the use if 'hare lip' that really isnt acceptable and i am pretty sure there eas a thread on it fairly recently.

BoomerGold · 09/09/2012 05:37

Apostropheuse

You wrote this: As an aside...my other daughter - five or six at the time - told me that her friend's uncle was really strange - this was after her having known him for about a year or so. I was about to explain about him having Downs Syndrome until she went on to explain that he was strange because he ate cornflakes for lunch instead of breakfast!

Why did you assume she was talking about his disability? Go on, admit it, it's because you expected her to, just like the OP expected her daughter to.

TyrannoWearsGoldKnickers · 09/09/2012 07:00

'Onions give me wind'

This made me fucking howl, thanks Jodie!

Lougle · 09/09/2012 07:53

Wannabe:
"we have got to the point where being black or Asian or a woman or gay is no lone seen as a point of relevant issue."

I don't think that's true. People have complicated sorting and filing of information.

It isn't about any of those characteristics being negative, it is about them making the described person distinct from others.

For example: I live in a village which is probably 99.5% 'white'. If I was talking to a friend about another friend, and they couldn't place her, I'd freely say 'my Asian friend'. However, if I had lots of Asian friends, it would no longer narrow the field enough to be relevant.

We all do it, mostly subconsciously. Are you suggesting that if you played the game "guess who" you wouldn't say 'is he bald?' 'is she white?' Of course you would. You go for the characteristic that will eliminate the most people from the possibilities.

Disability equality shouldn't be about people pretending disabilities don't exist and aren't relevant in all situations. It should be about disconnecting a person's disability from their worth.

SecretCermonials · 09/09/2012 08:25

Commenting purely on the OP. Your daughter has made me tear up ok ok cry but i AM pregnant I hope I can raise my boys to be the same as your daughter to see people for who they are

everlong · 09/09/2012 08:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EleanorHandbasket · 09/09/2012 08:56

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everlong · 09/09/2012 09:02

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Portofino · 09/09/2012 09:09

Excellent post, Wannabe.

wannaBe · 09/09/2012 09:31

ListeringArnacles no I don't use voice recognission software - I use a screenreader. It basically just turns everything on the streen into verbal text, so whereas you see on the screen what you've written, I have a voice synth which speaks it. I type normally (at 95 words per minute), and the voice just reads what I type as I type it, and if I need to read it back or anything else on the screen I simply just scroll down the screen for it to be read...

Lougle but the difference is that while of course in some instances the disability and hence the differences would be noticeable or distinguishing, not doing so isn't praiseworthy.

I don't expect people not to mention my disability. It's part of who I am, but it isn't who I am, iyswim. People are friends wiith me for me, not because it's praiseworthy to be friends with the disabled person.

Can people really not see how patronising that is?

Lougle · 09/09/2012 09:33

"Your dismissiveness of wannabe's post speaks volumes."

Whose dismissiveness?

I disagreed with one particular point, and expanded on why it is at odds with my understanding of the human brain's processing.

How do we store information? We categorise it. The values we then put on the categories are entirely distinct from the categories themselves.

Do you think the Police would be so 'anti-discriminatory' to ignore the fact that a suspect uses a wheelchair, has a guide dog, has one arm, or has a speech and language disability? No, of course not. A busy shopping mall, they have to find the suspect before they get a chance to leave. First thing that would be made clear is 'has this noticeable difference.'

That doesn't mean that there should be a value placed on that difference, it just is. But if you want the differences to be ignored, and overlooked, perhaps you should demand that the Paralympians compete in the Olympics rather than have their own event?

Speaking from my personal experience, there is far more damage done by people's expectations for DD1 to behave like a 7 year old rather than behaving as a child with a developmental disorder. So much that even a shopping trip is excruciating at times, because the judgey looks are overwhelming. I find myself apologetically saying 'she has SN' as she kicks off loudly. The fact is though, if people weren't too busy pretending not to notice, it would be obvious. She's nearly 7, and I have her sat in a buggy, or holding on to her. Her sisters are 5 and 3, and are walking freely. She has an odd gait, she has clear speech and language issues, and when she's happy she often gallops instead of walking, saying 'no ni, noonooo'.

But, no. Because Society is being convinced that 'equality' is pretending that a disability isn't a 'relevant difference' I get looks which constitute 'badly behaved child' 'mother has no discipline' and 'what a brat' rolled into one. It's beautiful.

DD1 goes to a Special school. The school often take the children shopping to the local supermarket. I am on the board of Governers, and we had a whole Governing Body training session on 'community cohesion'. The trainer proudly stated platitudes such as 'isn't it wonderful that society is so accepting of people with disabilities these days' and the staff present said 'actually, no. It's really, really hard when we take our children shopping, because the hostility of other shoppers who think we shouldn't be taking our children to their supermarket to get in the way and make a noise.'

We will only make progress when people realise that it isn't the disability that should be ignored and go unnoticed. We will make progress when people realise that disability is only one part of the person, and that they have a great contribution to make in society.

Or, shall we do away with the 'two ticks' scheme, because we shouldn't be encouraging people to make a big deal of disability?

Lougle · 09/09/2012 09:37

X-posted with you, Wannabe.

It goes back to the OP. I think it was very clear that the OP was proud of her daughter because she didn't think her physical difference was 'newsworthy' and instead highlighted all the wonderful things about her friend'.

Other people think that the OP was proud of her DD for being friends with a disabled child and not mentioning her disability.

Different emphasis.

If her DD had said 'well yes, she has one arm but I know it's a bit rude to mention it, so I thought you could see it for yourself', I doubt the OP would have been quite so proud.

The fact that the OP asked why she hadn't said anything, and the OP's child was confused by the question showed that the DD really didn't see her disability as significant, which is why the OP was proud.

I don't think that's hard to understand.

trumpeter · 09/09/2012 10:26

Good post wannaBe, and yes I hope everyone on the thread reads it too.

The instant you make reference to how wonderful it is that someone hasn?t mentioned a disability you make that disabled person unequal

wannaBe as much as I can see the reasoning behind this, it's not as clear cut as this in this instance. If it had been another adult, then yes I probably would not have been so observant of the fact that he/she had failed to mention the girl's disability. In all seriousness I can probably say with 99% certainty that most adults I know would have mentioned the missing arm right away. However, it wasn't. It was my daughter. A young teenage girl who is developing her own perceptions of the world, some which are contrary to the perceptions of her grandparents and parents and maybe peers? It showed to me that hopefully young people are changing their attitudes and it made me happy. Why is that so wrong? Stop reading into this so defensively, it's a good thing that a young person didn't see the need to point out another young person's very obvious disability when describing her. And for the record, I didn't 'gush' praise on her, quite the opposite, we had a very brief conversation and that was that. I took it to MN because, like other teenagers, she would have told me to 'get a grip, mum' Hmm

OP posts:
everlong · 09/09/2012 10:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

trumpeter · 09/09/2012 11:06

Fine, you think there was no need. Good for you, lots of people were supportive. Each to their own.

OP posts:
differentnameforthis · 09/09/2012 12:32

They've had friends who are black, gay and a hare lip

Cleft lip. Hare lip is very offensive.

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