Aibu re childcare comments

[sleepdodger]

Im RL and on here alot recently I've been met with gasps when people digest I work ft and then realize DS 17mo is in ft nursery for about 50hrs a week
Do people not realize what full time hours mean?
Why do people assume its ok to question 'couldn't you do pt' etc - presumably no they can't afford it or choose not to...
Often then followed by 'is he (DS) ok there' in hushed tone
Then followed by 'no family able to help?'
It's not been mentioned much until now, he's been in nursery since 10mo but it's starting to get to me a bit :-(

With regard to the Op's question, soooo many people in RL - and even more so anonymously on here - freely offer their unsolicitred opinions on others' choices, or more subtly say things like "we do X, Y Z (knowing we do A, B and C) because our children are so important".

We try to be neutral, change the subject and moan to one another later, but with a few persistent, rude people (formerly close friends and family) have had to challenge it directly eg "our choice / arrangements seem to bother you, why is that?" or even "please stop criticising".

Am working on this with my (lovely but interfering and opinionated) parents at the moment, with comical results! My DM recently said to DF after the latest bout of "advice" on work/life/parenting, "we need to respect that it's Dozer's choice, she will manage it". Hallelujah!

Legal minimum staff ratios are one carer to three children for under twos. One career to four children for two to three year olds. One carer for eight children for three to five year olds.

Pitmountainpony, when commenting on your original post about a 2 week old baby at nursery, I was looking at it from a UK perspective, not a USA one. Given the UK's more generous maternity leave policies, it's unusal for a mum to return to work as early as eight to twelve weeks after birth. Most nurseries in my part of the UK won't accept babies younger than 3 months - I only know of one that will take babies from 6 weeks of age. I appreciate that it's a lot different in the US.

oooh burlington bertie must try that hard stare!

Also, when people say why not stay at home/get a (lower paid) local job/work PT, it is almost always to the woman. Men don't generally get these Qs ( except about their wives).

My DH is part time to see more of DS. The praise he gets! People falling over themselves to congratulate him

bigkidsdidit when I've been away I get told dh was wonderful and did so well
When I ask him what he did it was sane as usual...

It's an emotive subject because when you give birth, you're so overwhelmed by this amazing experience of being a parent that it's hard to imagine ever putting your baby down or being in a different room. No doubt we've all spent that first night after the birth lying awake in pure wonderment at this new life.

Then as the weeks and months roll by, you realise that parenting is actually about so much more than that. The intensity of love doesn't fade, no way, but parenting becomes a part of life, for want of a better phrase. It's about nurturing and caring and enabling our children to form bonds with the wider world, and helping them to understand that they are part of a bigger picture which includes mum, dad, siblings, friends and family.

This isn't an argument to say parents 'should' or 'shouldnt ' work, because that's up to each family to decide. I'm just trying to explain how many parents feel. People don't go back to work because they don't enjoy spending time with young children, or because they are prioritising work over children; they do it because they don't see a conflict between becoming a parent and continuing with other aspects of their life which were relevant pre-children.

Of course, many people make adaptions and perhaps cut down working hours or get more family friendly work, because that makes for the smooth running of the family.

Sleepdodger- you are in this parenting game for the long haul. When your children grow up healthy and happy and perfectly well adjusted you will know that you have done ok.

janey- I love your last post! It used to irritate ne when I had my pfb and my mil would tell me I'd change my mind about wanting to be with her all day every day.... Well what do you know, as a mum of four adults, she was right! I agree that children are not your own property but new people in the world, and you need to enable them to cope with all sorts of situations; dealing with difficulties, communicating with other people etc- and it's your job to do this to create well rounded individuals.

By returning to work I'm yhining of the long term; my career would be hard to get back into if I had a few years off; in years to come I want to be able to provide for my family... Etc etc. We do what we have to do! Everyone's priorities are different. A friend of mine has just given up work to care for her baby AND her elderly parents. She's doing what she has to do. It takes all sorts!

Op how are you feeling now after all the debate on your thread? I'm hoping you feel more secure and positive in your choices.

I wonder how many people saying a 10 hour day in a nursery is fine for a baby have actually spent a 10 hour day in a nursery?

I don't think people are actually saying that. They are saying that if somebody is choosing that form of childcare for their child, then they will have made that decision on the basis of their family circumstances, their child and that particular nurseries.

There are nurseries where I wouldn't want my child to spend half an hour, and there are nurseries where I would be very happy for them to spend all day. The nursery my children attended was so wonderful that if I'd given up work and not sent dc2 I would actually have felt he had a lesser experience overall

I have. Used to work in them,

Really, there are so many different nursery set ups, it's impossible to just talk about 'nurseries' as some generalised experience. It's like with schools- different structures and styles. I chose a nursery that had a child led approach so children didn't have to eat/ nap/ have outdoor time altogether at set times. Other people might not like that and would deliberately choose somewhere with more of a routine. Just like parenting really- I have some friends who establish a routine very early on and others who don't; there isn't a 'right' way, it's a case of what works for each family

Rubirosa I was just thinking the same thing. When I have been at my child's preschool (we are in NZ) I have sometimes looked around at the noise and lack of space and thought how stressful I would find it being here all day every day.

Janey68 that's great if your child's nursery was so great, it doesn't mean that they all are, or that all parents have the money/options to choose which particular nursery their child is in. What do you think it's like for the children in the nursery you wouldn't want your child in for half an hour?" If children are in a less than ideal environment I think this should be acknowledged, even if it's really painful for their parents to think about. And yes of course different styles of nurseries suit different children/families, but it doesn't mean that some are simply not at an acceptable level of quality.

I really am sorry if people feel bad/guilty about hearing others question whether babies being in f/time childcare is the best thing for the baby. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be talked about or debated.

People can have an opinion about childcare based on an altruistic interest in what is best for babies/children rather than just giving their opinion because they're wanting to make other people feel guilty/sad/pissed off.

Good post londonkiwi.

London- I am assuming that parents who choose the nurseries I wouldn't want are looking for something different! I didn't say the nurseries were bad- just not what I wanted. Like I went on to expand- some parents want more routine, some want child led... It doesn't make either of these 'right'

A couple of other points- nursery is expensive - and usually the younger the child the more expensive the tariff. So who are all these 'poor' parents who can only afford 'bad' nurseries?! You're talking about up to £1000 a month for full time care. Someone choosing that is highly likely to have plenty of other options open to them. (not that I know anyone who has put a 2 week old in full time nursery as claimed on here though- I do think a lot of these stories are apocryphal)

Really, if people have genuine concern about child welfare, it would be most logical to save it for where it's genuinely needed. Like I said before, logically peoples concern should be for where childcare is not great but there is no choice- ie in families where there is neglect or lack of stimulation and the parent (s) aren't working so can't afford childcare OR where the parents do have to work for financial reasons but can't afford childcare so use an unpaid relative. They may strike lucky and get good care but the point is - they have no choice if the care isn't what they want ( which is fairly frequently judging by threads on here)

You know what, I am actually concerned about child neglect and abuse AND whether daycare is suitable for purpose

I'm sure all parents using a nursery feel that it is a brilliant nursery just as you do janey, or else they wouldn't use them. But my two concerns (as someone who is passionately interested in early years care) is that the standard of nursery care in general is lower than it should/could be, and that group care in nurseries is particularly poor at meeting the needs of children under 2.

Ah right rubirosa- I'm glad you've finally stopped Beating about the bush and come out with it! Those of us who have made thoughtful considered decisions about our children think we've made great decisions and had excellent care, but if only we really knew.....

Sorry, but I'm not interested in that brand of undermining other parents masquerading as 'benign concern'

I too am very interested in child development, i too am a reasonably intelligent well informed human being and above all I know MY children and my family situation and what has worked really well for all of us. And I respect other families enough to know that they are able to make decisions about what is right for them.

My children are well beyond nursery stage now anyway. And as they are confident, happy, normal children I have no concerns.

However, I am sure someone will be along in a moment to try to undermine that by suggesting I am very lucky that they emerged from nursery unscathed, or even to insinuate that they arent out of the woods yet and maybe they will suddenly develop all sorts of neuroses as adults!

Now- for the record, if anyone does feel the need to say something along those lines, I'll be charitable and assume its because it makes you feel better to think that, rather than thinking you would actually want to make other parents feel bad about their choices. Because that would actually be a pretty unpleasant character trait.

People should stay at home, or go to work, or use cm, nurseries , nannies - it's what is right for THEIR family. Amen!

I'm not sure about that, janey, although I've agreed with all your posts so far. Children are not obstacles for feminism to brush aside - they are people, whose care is hugely important.

I work full time and I went back when DS was 7mo and I believe firmly in families making their own choices, yes. But to agree with that is not to also blindly believe all nurseries are good enough. I looked round a few and all were inadequate - poor care, high staff turnover, etx. In the end we did a combo- I flexi work a bit, DH dropped to four days, and we chose a childminder.

I know lots of nurseries are good. Bit lots aren't. We can say - women should arrange their lives as they see fit, but also still research the best care for our children and try to support that too.

I have spent 10 hours in a nursery and would always choose the ones I know over childminders

I absolutely did not mean nurseries are never right - I know lots are very good

What I meant was lots also aren't. And even though we might, as feminists, wish 50 hours in one of them to be great care for a 6mo, wishing does not make it so

I'd rather we pushed for more men to go part time...

Sure you're right janey, early years care in this country is the absolute pinnacle of perfection and there are no problems or improvements to be made whatsoever. In fact why do we even need all these silly Government initiatives, Ofsted inspections, child development experts etc when everything is so good already and suggesting otherwise might make parents feel bad?

janey - maybe not op but 1000s of mums use childcare who are on low income.Also many/most of the low income nurseries are by far the best as they are surestart so if you live in a low income area the nurseries are often fantastic

I might be in the minority, but I'm just not comfortable with the idea of a childminder - I feel like I want the environment he is in to be focussed on babies his age, and their needs, not on a mixed group. Plus I hate the thought of him being dragged along on other children's school runs and activities etc. Plus I feel like, from a child protection standpoint, nursery seems safer. All the staff are accountable to a manager and they aren't ever really alone with a baby. Plus there are more eyes in the room iyswim. Plus the nightmare of childminder taking holidays and how you are supposed to fit in with that.

As long as you and your child are happy and comfortable with whatever childcare you have in place, I don't think anyone needs to get judgemental or assume that you haven't considered all the options and decided that this is actually the best fit for your family.

When you are a mother, nothing you ever do is right according to some people.

Some people choose to be a SAHM and are not leading a good example because they are not showing their children you can work and be a parent

Some people choose to be a WOHM and are not showing a good example because they don't want to be with their children 24/7

Some people have to be a WOHM otherwise they would have no roof over their head

Some people have to be a SAHM because they cannot do their job with young children as no childcare available at the right times (not childcare too expensive, childcare that doesn't exist)

I have felt in every one one of those categories at some point. I didn't veer between being a 'good mum' or a 'shit mum', I remained persistently adequate

moaning, that is very true.

I'd feel desperately sad for any little one stuck in nursery for 50 hours a week- whats the point in having a child to stick them in an institution.

Really really sad for the poor little souls