to think that it's completely bonkers to want a large family?

[slightlystunned]

I read a recent thread where a mom is contemplating having a 4th child and the responses were largely (and cautiously) supportive.

If she had asked the same question to someone from my country, she would have been considered a freak.

I come from a country that is struggling with over-population and poverty and a large % of crime and thus a lot of orphans / abandoned children. I am also enough of an environmental nut to realise that 2+ children or 4+ humans per household means more consumption of natural and artificial resources.

And, face it, in the western culture the child leaves home at 18. The rude behavior and ingratitude and f&ck off attitude starts well before that, around 13, 14 years? So I genuinely don't understand why one would sacrifice their best years & money for that relatively short period of time (13+years), to bring up 3+ children, who may or may not stay together, or keep in touch with you, or worse, hurt you. I have lived extensively in US and Europe, and ALL the families I know see their children only during holidays, about once a year. In fact, one of my British-born, Caucasian friends is in deep emotional and financial crisis and none of her 5 siblings have time to spend with her, they are all well off and can help her, but they politely looking the other way while she a single mom is struggling with a day job.

This is not just a one-time observation, even the people in my acquaintances who have good relationship with their siblings or parents do not help out, saying that "I can't be involved, I have my own life to lead". So if large families do not teach other to help each other, what else is the purpose?

In my grandmother's generation, it was common to have 6 or 8 or even 10 children every household. More children was sign of ""manliness" and ""fertility"

In my mother's generation, 2 and 3 were common. 4 was considered slightly overdose.

In my generation, just one or at the most, 2 seems to be enough. And the trend right now in my country is to have one ""womb" child and one "heart" child (adopted). Which is fairly a good idea, considering the number of orphans and destitute children in the world.

So my two questions are: 1. is this what it is in the West - a trend, a statement to say that "I am a domestic goddess" and have a large family? Do people actually realise the social, financial and emotional consequences of having a large family in today's world?

1. If there is any other valid reason, why this craze to have children from own "blood"? If a person is lucky enough to have financial security and the means to raise another child, why not share it with a child from "outside" who is not so fortunate?

I don't wish to hurt any one, I have been plagued by these questions for many years. I just want some perspective. I am not married, nor do I have children.

If you are genuinely wanting t discuss this without harsh comments, I suggest you ask it to be moved fro AIBU.

You've been plagued by these questions for many years?

In the uk it's easier if you can conceive, to have biological children than it is to adopt.
I have 2 dc. I'd love to have more but I am also considering fostering/adoption when my dd's are older. I don't think all kids are a pain as teens. I have a great relationship with my mum and we has minimal teenage rows.

And I suggest you stop with the silly stereotyping too

"And, face it, in the western culture the child leaves home at 18"

Do you want to tell that to my DS/Brother/Nephews?

Leaving aside your thoughts on population growth, some people have lovely children (including teenagers)and lovely siblings, and some people can afford large families, so I don't think your personal experience is representative of all families.

Looking at my personal experience (and again leaving aside any thoughts on the environment and population growth), I know very few people with more than 2 children, so if the odd person of my acquaintance is happy to have 4 or more, that is completely their decision and no, they aren't bonkers.

Are you a journalist or researcher?

I don't think anyone can quite "get" the overwhelming love and desire to have a child / more children unless you've already had one.... I think the bottom line is you love the first one so much you want more! Everything else is mush.

There is a cultural difference to be sure. Britain does still have the same issues with regard to the global environment and how children affect that, but I'd have thought not everyone factors that into their choices to have children.
The UK does not have a problem with over population per se and adoption is not that easy.
I disagree that rudeness and ingratitude is a norm from the age of 13/14 and as the stepmother of two teens I'd say that is wide of the mark of most of the teens that I know.
People may end up with bigger families than they planned for various reasons, or they may choose to have more than one or two children. There are 3 children in my family (I haven't given birth to all of them) and I'm very happy that they are here.

Lovely, thanks, what a nice thread about my thread - this really made me feel great. I want children because - well why does anybody want children? I just do. OK? I just do want a large family, for fun and laughter and love.

Whether I will or not remains to be seen

'In fact, one of my British-born, Caucasian friends is in deep emotional and financial crisis and none of her 5 siblings have time to spend with her, they are all well off and can help her, but they politely looking the other way while she a single mom is struggling with a day job.'

Are you saying it's because they're white and british born that they aren't supporting her? Do you not think it might be anything to do with her just coming from an unsupportive family, you know, the type you get in every country with every type of skin colour.

Otherwise, the environment is probably a fair way down on the list of deciding whether you're going to have children or not.

Too much nonsense in your post to answer it all. But IMO People want big families because they have the time and emotional energy to invest in them. Having and raising children is their 'thing' and they are good at it. Not to prove their womanhood I don't even know what to say about your view that children are only rewarding until age 13. What?? I see my parents and siblings more than once a year. So do most people I know. But the plural of anecdote is not data and your experience says nothing about the nature of grown up family relationships in general. A 'trend' to adopt a child alongside a bio child? Where in earth do you live that this is a 'trend'? Again, not sure where to start on how wrong that sounds.

I had 4 because I had 2 with my xh and 2 with my dp. I wanted to so I did, that's it!

Having children is not something people tend to do as part of a "craze" or a "trend".

By some of the logic in the op, it's pointless to have any children at all.

Uk demographics are very different. We generally move, to commute to cities for work. There a fewer small or close knit communities left where generation upon generation still live. There are areas still like that, but they are few.

in the western culture the child leaves home at 18.

Really? all western culture? In the Uk it's mid-30's now. I would assume in 3rd world its much earlier, perhaps just past puberty (delayed because of diet/healthcare) to be married off, due to the lack of longevity, disease, lack of health care, lack of life expectancy.

In my grandmother's generation, it was common to have 6 or 8 or even 10 children every household. More children was sign of ""manliness" and ""fertility"

Lack of contraception is more likely, or cultural preference to have boys.

And the trend right now in my country is to have one ""womb" child and one "heart" child (adopted).

where are all these spare babies coming from, that need to be adopted?

I'm not into big families myself, and get the environmental aspect, but don't get the rest, we are very involved in our parent's lives, except for one parent who is very toxic and would shit all over any help anyone gave him anyway.. but we are very involved and I think that's the default. Yes in teens and maybe early 20s you do sod off and maybe send a post card for a couple of years while you leave your own stamp.. but then you return to wanting to be around your parents and siblings more, particularly when you have children, so its a temporary distancing which IMO is quite healthy and I'ld be quite happy for DS to say to us he was sodding off around the world for a year at that age.

and I'ld love to adopt, If it was EASY I'ld choose adoption, but its not, here children are damaged for years in a dysfunctional care system before you get them, and its so hard to even get to that point... what you describe there with one birth child and one adopted child would probably be my ideal but do you really thing that's a feasable option for many people in the UK

I would love to have a large family but due to age don't think it will happen but my parents are both from large families (irish catholic) and they are all so close and I would love the same for my family. Granted it is difficult to get everyone together very often but it is fantastic when they do. I have such fantastic memories of growing up and visiting my grandparents at the weekends and the house was always full of family popping in, full of laughter and fun, I would love this for my children.

I have 3 of my own and disagree with a lot of what you have said. I am lucky to have relatives close by who are able and willing to support us. The environmental factors do concern me but my family live fairly sustainably. The emotional consequences for my children will be that they have 2 siblings (at least!) to support them throughout their life. I would love to adopt or foster an am sure I will at least be a respite foster carer at some point.

I am completely bonkers but I live in an area where a lot of the mums I speak to have, are planning or are talking about having a 3rd child so it's pretty normal for me!

Where are you from op?

Actually, what is it about some posters who start threads like this...comparing our culture/country to theirs...but they never bloody say what their country/culture is?

"And, face it, in the western culture the child leaves home at 18"

......and comes back at 22 after finishing Uni 'cos housing is too expensive :)

And the trend right now in my country is to have one ""womb" child and one "heart" child (adopted). Which is fairly a good idea, considering the number of orphans and destitute children in the world

Which country is that? I'm surprised, as it flies in the face of human nature.

I'm very interested to know what country has families with one womb baby an one heart baby.

I know!

The OP is either Madonna or Brangelina, buying all the iddy-bitty black "heart" babies up

I am from India. I am studying masters in UK.

Thanks for all the perspective (yes even the abusive ones). I realise myself there is a lot of nonsense in my query. I just want to get it out and hear from people who have kids or who want large families. Almost everybody I meet here in college and also outside of it has a sad story about sibling/ parental cruelty or abandonment. It makes my heart ache.

Personally I am terrified of having a large family. Some of your words are of much comfort to me.

I said Caucasian just to make sure that nobody mistakes my friend to be some one from my own culture/country.

I am bonkers. I have 4 DC's. There you go hypothesis proved.
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